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Old August 29, 2013, 11:34 PM   #1
Fishbed77
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New Executive Order to ban the re-import of surplus rifles. Will this kill the CMP?

The Obama Administration has issued an Executive Order to ban the sale of re-imported surplus rifles to private citizens. This could essentially kill the CMP rifle sales program, which sales M1 Garand rifles that have been re-imported from the Allied countries (Greece, Turkey, Denmark, etc.) these rifles were originally leased to.

Please read this White House's so-called "Fact Sheet."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-...e-gun-violence

We need to make sure that the media picks up on this. Since these obsolete surplus rifles are statistically never used to commit crimes, this is nothing more than a vindictive attack against our Constitutionally-protected rights.

I will be immediately writing to all of my elected officials.

I have a feeling that after you read the "Fact Sheet," you will be doing the same.
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Old August 30, 2013, 12:17 AM   #2
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Probably so. One good thing is that it will keep all of those M1's out of the hands of the criminals. You know how they really like those 9lb.+ 8 shot rifles out on the streets.
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Old August 30, 2013, 12:21 AM   #3
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One good thing is that it will keep all of those M1's out of the hands of the criminals. You know how they really like those 9lb.+ 8 shot rifles out on the streets.
Of course they like them. They want to be technically correct, and it's the only commonly-available rifle that actually uses evil "assault clips".
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Old August 30, 2013, 07:44 AM   #4
Art Eatman
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Leave the politics out of it.

At some point, all "returnees" would have returned, been refurbished or whatever, and then sold. After that?

I've no idea of existing inventory. But when it's gone, so is CMP.
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Old August 30, 2013, 08:30 AM   #5
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Keeping Surplus Military Weapons Off Our Streets

•When the United States provides military firearms to its allies, either as direct commercial sales or through the foreign military sales or military assistance programs, those firearms may not be imported back into the United States without U.S. government approval. Since 2005, the U.S. Government has authorized requests to reimport more than 250,000 of these firearms.
•Today, the Administration is announcing a new policy of denying requests to bring military-grade firearms back into the United States to private entities, with only a few exceptions such as for museums. This new policy will help keep military-grade firearms off our streets.
Military grade is a very broad term and can be applied to any military single shot, bolt action, or semi automatic ever made. Yes, I believe this is to dry up supply. This will affect the CMP and everyone who ever wanted a vintage military rifle.

Congress granted the Executive Branch unlimited powers to manage the ITAR and the Munitions list . By adding it to the Munitions List, the President can direct the State Department to ban importation of anything "weapons related". This can include swords, knives, spears, rocks, anything.
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Old August 30, 2013, 08:55 AM   #6
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Another utterly meaningless gesture. The only big "reservoir" left are the beat up guns in Korea, and their reimport has been held up for years over payments anyway. If they ever settle the issue, another executive order can allow the import just as easy as it now formally blocked it.
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Old August 30, 2013, 09:21 AM   #7
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Will this affect foreign milsurp as well, such as Mausers, or are most of these weapons already in the states and not imported often?
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Old August 30, 2013, 09:57 AM   #8
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Not so sure CMP will be affected, as they aren't importing per-se.

The CMP repatriates rifles that have been returned from allies to whom they were lent. Hence no import marks. They aren't being imported, but returned.

When US arms are offered for sale to importers, they have to go through the usual channels and are subject to the ATF sporting purposes interpretation, import marking statutes, etc. CMP doesn't buy rifles in this market.

Hence, Korean M1's were blocked from import while CMP continued to receive rifles from various sources.

The reason why one source of rifles is wholesome and good for US and another is horrible cause of social decay and violence eludes me at present.
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Old August 30, 2013, 10:14 AM   #9
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18 USC § 925 (Thanks to Sen Bob Dole) directs the AG to allow importation of firearms on the C&R list. This can't be changed by EO.

From what I have read so far, I don't see how this would effect the CMP. CMP does not import firearms, they get them only from the military.

Anything firearms that were provided in lend-lease would come back to the military, and then go to CMP.

Last I heard, there was nothing left that was coming back, and the only rifles that were out there in any quantity were in Korea, and the CMP didn't want them due to their condition.
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Old August 31, 2013, 08:51 AM   #10
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This will not affect CMP as they do not import rifles.
Garands etc are returned to the US Army that were loaned to other countires. They are then turned over to CMP for sale. CMP is not a Importer
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Old August 31, 2013, 09:55 AM   #11
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no it will not kill the CMP.
1. CMP does more than just sell rifles. they host firearms training seminars and competition shoots. instilling marksmanship is their primary purpose, not selling guns.
2. the ban does not effect the government. companies like CAI and ATI will not be allowed to re-import US service arms but the US government can which is were all the guns that come from CMP are in the first place. CMP does not buy from CAI or ATI and then resell to us, they get everything from US storage and then sell to us.
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Old August 31, 2013, 05:42 PM   #12
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No, but you can bet the Mausers, CZ's, Swiss K31's, Polish64's, Maks, etc. are next.
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Old September 1, 2013, 12:34 AM   #13
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Obama has effected the CMP. Last time there, one of the workers was talking about a huge quantity of M1's overseas that the Obama admin. would not let them bring into the USA.
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Old September 1, 2013, 05:07 AM   #14
Orlando
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Then who you talked to doesnt know what he is saying.
ONE MORE TIME, the firearms are returned to the US Army ,period.
Then they are turned over to CMP. This Executive order would stop firearms from being Imported by private companies
The Army is not a private company so has absolutly no bearing.
CMP does not Import firearms
CMP's Director Of Operations said yesterday that this latest news WILL NOT HAVE ANY AFFECT ON CMP
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Old September 2, 2013, 12:51 AM   #15
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No, but you can bet the Mausers, CZ's, Swiss K31's, Polish64's, Maks, etc. are next.
He certainly wants to, but he can't without congress. Congress passed a law, signed by President Reagan, mandating the AG to approve imports of curios and relics. Period.

Seriously, Google it.

18 USC § 925.
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Old September 2, 2013, 03:19 PM   #16
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reynolds357 wrote:Obama has effected the CMP. Last time there, one of the workers was talking about a huge quantity of M1's overseas that the Obama admin. would not let them bring into the USA.
Actually, the current iteration of the CMP was effected by The National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1996 (Public Law 104-106, 10 February 1996), which created the Corporation for the Promotion of Rifle Practice & Firearms Safety (CPRPFS) to take over administration and promotion of the CMP. The CPRPFS is a tax-exempt non-profit 501(c)(3) corporation chartered by the U.S. Congress, but is not an agency of the U.S. government (Title 36, United States Code, Section 40701 et seq.).

Obama's EO will affect the CMP in some way. As noted before, "military grade" leaves a lot open to interpretation. My money says that the EO will affect the civilian acquisition of Garands and Carbines negatively.
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Old September 2, 2013, 03:32 PM   #17
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Obama's EO will affect the CMP in some way. As noted before, "military grade" leaves a lot open to interpretation. My money says that the EO will affect the civilian acquisition of Garands and Carbines negatively.
No. CMP does not import rifles. All this effects is the beaters the Korea has been trying to import for years. The current administration has already been denying this. Orest Michaels, the guy in charge of CMP has stated even if they came back, CMP doesn't want them because of their condition.

"Military grade" isn't open for interpretation at all. The only thing it refers to is M1 Carbines, M1 Rifles, and US military bolt action rifles. That is it. Anything newer would be select fire, and would never be sold to civilians. The government hasn't sold surplus pistols for a very long time.

There are no more stocks of M1 rifles or carbines anywhere else that are eligible for return to the Army for disposal to the CMP. There may be newer stuff, but that doesn't matter, as it wouldn't end up for sale anyway, and is is all select fire.
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Old September 2, 2013, 04:18 PM   #18
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M1s in Korea might be stuck. Ok, I'm safe from the roving hordes of hoodlum WW2 reenactor gangs.
Are there any M9s or .45s on lendlease anywhere?
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Old September 2, 2013, 07:29 PM   #19
FALPhil
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No. CMP does not import rifles. All this effects is the beaters the Korea has been trying to import for years. The current administration has already been denying this. Orest Michaels, the guy in charge of CMP has stated even if they came back, CMP doesn't want them because of their condition.

"Military grade" isn't open for interpretation at all. The only thing it refers to is M1 Carbines, M1 Rifles, and US military bolt action rifles. That is it. Anything newer would be select fire, and would never be sold to civilians. The government hasn't sold surplus pistols for a very long time.
There is a reading comprehension thing going on here.

No one said anything about the CMP importing anything. In fact, if you go back through the thread, Orlando points out the rifles are returned to the Army.

With all due respect to Orest, (a) he is not a politician, and (b) he has zero control over the situation and is probably not in the communication loop at this time.

Furthermore, regardless of the perceived condition of the Korean rifles, there are still tons (literally) of salvageable parts.

As to "military grade" not being open to interpretation, I can only surmise that you are not an attorney. Neither am I, but I deal with them regularly. It all depends on "what the definition of 'is' is".
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Old September 2, 2013, 08:31 PM   #20
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There is a reading comprehension thing going on here.
Indeed.
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No one said anything about the CMP importing anything. In fact, if you go back through the thread, Orlando points out the rifles are returned to the Army.
Right, he pointed that out about a day after I did.

Most of the hand-wringing has been, "oh noes, CMP won't be able to import any more rifles". As CMP doesn't import rifles, this will have no effect.

Quote:
With all due respect to Orest, (a) he is not a politician, and (b) he has zero control over the situation and is probably not in the communication loop at this time.
I doubt he cares. He know what is out there. He knows there are no more rifles coming back from overseas. He knows the Korean rifles will not be coming back to the Army, so they will not be coming to the CMP.

Quote:
Furthermore, regardless of the perceived condition of the Korean rifles, there are still tons (literally) of salvageable parts.
This is really the only question. If the Koreans decide to chop them up and import the parts, would they be able to? Frankly, I doubt it is even an issue. My guess is the Koreans will bide their time for a friendly administration who will allow them to sell the rifles to an importer. I suspect they are worth more as complete guns than parts.

Quote:
As to "military grade" not being open to interpretation, I can only surmise that you are not an attorney. Neither am I, but I deal with them regularly. It all depends on "what the definition of 'is' is".
Again, it doesn't matter. Nothing newer than an M1 (carbine or rifle) will EVER even have the chance of import for sale, because they are machine guns.

DCM used to sell pistols in the 1960s, CMP never has, and as I understand it, never will because they have a different charter than DCM. That limits "military grade" firearms, which the President has any control over based on 18 USC § 925 to what I mentioned. M1, M1 Carbine, 1903, 1917, and various Krags, if there are any left. The only firearms out there, that the USA gave/lent/sold our allies in any quantity are the M1 rifles and carbines in Korea, and Dear Leader has been preventing those from coming back since he got in office.

Aside for the chance for Dear Leader to crow about it, this is meaningless.

The NFA Trust thing is even more asinine, but nobody seems to be bothered by that, because they don't understand it, or simply because it doesn't effect them.
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Old September 3, 2013, 01:01 AM   #21
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The CMP gets it rifles from the Army, the Army (or any other government agency) is exempt from the EO.

As too the CMP being history after they run out of guns is also false. The CMP Sales funds its shooting programs, per the Congressional Charter.

The CMP doesn't only sell surplus arms, parts, and ammo. It sells commercial supplies also. They also get donations from estates, returning ex-DCM/CMP rifles back to be sold again.

They still have crates of M1s that need to be inspected and graded before they put them up for sale. The Current backlog has affected the CMP also. When things slow down, they will pick up.

Anyway the CMP now has funds to continue their shooting programs long after the surplus rifles are gone.

As to Mr. Orest, I wouldn't go so far as to say he's out of the loop, the CMP has lawyers on staff who keep Mr. Orest up on current gun laws.

Politicians come and go, the CMP (DCM) has been around since 1903 and will be around long after most of us have passed on.
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Old September 3, 2013, 06:31 AM   #22
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Politicians come and go, the CMP (DCM) has been around since 1903 and will be around long after most of us have passed on.

Now that's a ray of sunshine through dark clouds.

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Old September 3, 2013, 08:23 AM   #23
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I used to have a military assault rifle that I used to kill things....

It was a sporterized 1917 that held 7 rounds of 30'06. With the 4x Weaver from the 50's, it was a real deerslayer.
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Old September 3, 2013, 09:49 AM   #24
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"Will this kill the CMP?"

That is what it is intended to do.

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Old September 3, 2013, 10:23 AM   #25
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"Will this kill the CMP?"

That is what it is intended to do.

Jim
How will it do that?
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