The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Bolt, Lever, and Pump Action

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 18, 2013, 10:16 AM   #1
cat9x
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 17, 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 212
Krag owners please HELP!

This is a 1901 pattern Krag sight. Are the adjustments here read in meters or yards?

cat9x is offline  
Old September 18, 2013, 11:24 AM   #2
wogpotter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 27, 2004
Posts: 3,070
I'm not a Krag expert, but I'd say yards, based on this bit about the M-14 being the first metric gun in 1957.
Quote:
Military[edit source]

The U.S. military uses metric measurements extensively to ensure interoperability with allied forces, particularly NATO STANAGs, "standardization agreements". Ground forces measure distances in "klicks", slang for kilometers. Most military firearms are measured in metric units, beginning with the M-14 which was introduced in 1957,[23] although a few legacy exceptions exist, such as .50-caliber guns. Aircraft ordnance is normally measured in pounds. Heavy weapon caliber is measured in millimeters. Military vehicles are generally built to metric standards. An exception is the U.S. Navy, whose guns are measured in inches and whose undersea fleet measures distances in terms of "kiloyards" (equivalent to 914.4 m), depth as "feet", and velocity, in some cases, as "feet per second". The Navy and Air Force continue to measure distance in nautical miles and speed in knots; these units are now accepted for use with SI by the BIPM.[27]
__________________
Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”?

Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”
wogpotter is offline  
Old September 18, 2013, 04:36 PM   #3
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: 1B ID
Posts: 6,799
It should be yards.
There were, however, some rifles produced for foreign contracts, that were graduated in meters or arshins.


If you have any more questions, the Krag Collectors Association would be your best source of information.
__________________
"Such is the strange way that man works -- first he virtually destroys a species and then does everything in his power to restore it."
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old September 19, 2013, 06:23 AM   #4
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,021
Definitely yards.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old September 19, 2013, 08:02 AM   #5
kraigwy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 9,444
Yards:

The 1901 Krag sights are unique in they have a variety of sighting options.

Look at the picture you posted. First take the slider. When the sight is laid down as pictured. Using the rear notch you set the rifle on Battle Sight. On the left side of the sight is the letter "B" and yard markings. The rifle is carried in normal conditions with the slider set so the notch is lined up on the B, (BSZ) which would is set for 375 yards. You can use this sight for 100 to 400 yards.

The other mark on the slider is used when the sight is flipped up. It goes from 450 to 1900 yards.

The peep in the rear of the slider (when the sight is flipped up can be used from 100 to 1775 yards.

The at the top of the sight when its flipped up is set at 2000 yards.

At the front of the sight is a lever that you loosen so you can pivot the rear sight for windage changes. The windage marks on the rear sight are 0.04 inches a part. each movement per mark moves the impact 5.56 in at 100, 11.74 at 200, 17.69 at 300 and 58.8 at 1000 yards, (rather course).

The sights settings are based on a 220 gr RN bullet with a MV of 2000 fps.

I use that load in my Krag with the 1901 sights and found the sight markings are pretty accurate. I find the peeps a little slow to find the front sight so for fast shooting I use the notch on the slider. I don't shoot this rifle much past 400 yards any way, but I have done it, its just not that fast.

I used my '98 Krag w/1901 sights in a three gun match and it worked quite well, except it's slower to re-charge the mag then the ARs most people were using. One stage had some really close balloon targets and since I was limited to six rounds they let me use the bayonet on the balloons to save one reload. When the sight is laid down you can side it back a bit short of the 100 yard mark that allows you to shoot 25-50 yards. (Bayonet changed impact but not too bad at close range).

It was quite an experience.

__________________
Kraig Stuart
CPT USAR Ret
USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
kraigwy is offline  
Old September 19, 2013, 10:03 AM   #6
cat9x
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 17, 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 212
Kraig,

Thank you so much for all that terrific information! I've looked and looked and learned more reading your post than anywhere else.

This particular sight is not mounted on a Krag however, it's mounted on a Remington Model 8 autoloading rifle used by Maj. John Hession for target work. Gun was made in 1909 and modified for him personally. Pretty cool sight although the yardage is a bit generous for the 25 Remington cartridge!
cat9x is offline  
Old September 19, 2013, 04:59 PM   #7
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,021
Isn't that basically the same kind of sight set up that was on the Springfield 1903?
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old September 19, 2013, 05:10 PM   #8
g.willikers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 28, 2008
Posts: 5,152
Meters overseas and yards in the US?
__________________
Lock the doors, they're coming in the windows.
g.willikers is offline  
Old September 19, 2013, 05:37 PM   #9
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 11,089
I never heard of any Foreign Power using the .30 Army (.30-40 Krag.)
Jim Watson is offline  
Old September 19, 2013, 08:10 PM   #10
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,021
"I never heard of any Foreign Power using the .30 Army (.30-40 Krag.)"

They didn't.

What he meant is that during World War I, in particular, US companies manufactured rifles for France and Imperial Russia.

The French rifles (made by Remington, I believe) had rear sights graduated in meters, which was the French measurement standard.

Russian rifles, Moisin Nagants manufactured by Westinghouse and Model 95 lever actions from Winchester, had their rear sights graduated in arshins, which was an old Imperial Russian measurement.

For many years afterwards (through the 1950s, I believe) Remington made ammo in both 8mm Lebel and 7.62x54R Russian to stoke the surplus rifles that were made in the US, but which never made it to either France or Russia due to the end of the war for those combatants.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old September 19, 2013, 09:01 PM   #11
James K
Staff
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 19,482
The U.S. Krag was made only by Springfield Armory and only for the U.S. services. Some may have been sold overseas, after they became surplus, but there were no foreign contracts or metric sights. The Krag-Jorgensen system was used by Denmark (1889) and Norway (1894), but they differ from the rifle adopted by the U.S.

In that period, the sights were given model numbers separate from the model of the rifle or carbine they were put on. The Model 1901 sight was the predecessor of the Model 1905 sight for the Model 1903, which originally had the Model 1903 sight, very much like the Model 1902.

IMHO, the Model 1901 sight is a poor one, but the Model 1905 sight has to be the worst sight ever put on a combat rifle. In that day, Army Ordnance was run by the target shooters, and they (like their descendants today) wanted to have every possible gadget and gimmick. So the 1905 sight has five (5) different aiming points, a rear sight leaf made to account for drift, etc., etc. And the windage marking in artillery mils!! (Yes, I know what those are, but I can't tell you everything! Look it up.)

All in all a horrible mess, and totally useless on a real battlefield, as the AEF soon found out. But not surprising that a Model 1901 sight would have been liked by a target shooter.

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old September 20, 2013, 07:17 AM   #12
SaxonPig
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 24, 2006
Posts: 749
Really? Eleven posts and not one photo of a sporting Krag?


SaxonPig is offline  
Old September 20, 2013, 08:41 AM   #13
kraigwy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 9,444
OK I'll post a picture of a Krag.

__________________
Kraig Stuart
CPT USAR Ret
USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
kraigwy is offline  
Old September 20, 2013, 02:47 PM   #14
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: 1B ID
Posts: 6,799
Mildly Bubba'd 1895 DCM Carbine:



It was fun, until I discovered a cracked bolt lug.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1386_crop_720.jpg (118.6 KB, 45 views)
__________________
"Such is the strange way that man works -- first he virtually destroys a species and then does everything in his power to restore it."
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old September 21, 2013, 04:58 AM   #15
Mike40-11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 807
Quote:
Isn't that basically the same kind of sight set up that was on the Springfield 1903?
Pretty much. And on the Springfield Trapdoor the preceded it.
Mike40-11 is offline  
Old September 23, 2013, 07:25 AM   #16
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,021
So, basically, it's a later version of a Buffington sight?

Interesting.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10662 seconds with 10 queries