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Old August 25, 2013, 11:55 AM   #1
.50cal packer
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SKS 922r question?

Looking at purchasing a sino-soviet SKS. Started doing my research on these for replacement parts. IE. pistons, firing pins and so forth. Well, I kept coming across these somewhat older post from different parts of the world wide web about how the Norinco SKS had to be altered to a maximum of 10 foreign made parts, however the Yugo SKS, was completely fine to have because of the 922r law. If all I want, is an original, Norinco SKS, Do I still have to do these changes to fire it occasionally? The 922r doesn't' make sense to many I have found, and I'm no exception when it comes to this I guess. Please help out with any knowledge of the sino-soviet SKS, and does it have to be changed. I'm not planning on changing the stock or anything, unless the internals need be. Thanks for all the help and advice in advance.
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Old August 25, 2013, 01:35 PM   #2
tahunua001
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yes 922R makes no sense but we still have to obey it.

a little clarification.
1. 922R has nothing to do with firing a gun, it has to do with possessing it.

2. norinco and sino soviet are two very different terms. norinco is an abbreviation for North China Industries Company. sino soviet is the term for government built SKS from china. norinco is a civilian company that built them for export.

3. a Sino soviet SKS built before today's date in 1963 is exempted from 922R because it meets the criteria to be C&R under section 925D of the US code. however since norinco SKS were not built until long after that they are not exempted and must be rendered 922R compliant before import. the only exception being rifles that were imported prior 922R being ratified.

4. changing any part of a stock sino soviet SKS removes it's intelligibility as C&R and is no longer exempt so it must be completely rendered 922r compliant.
I hope this helped.

there are few very vague exceptions but for the most part that's that.
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Old August 25, 2013, 04:19 PM   #3
Tidewater_Kid
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I would recommend checking out this site and do some reading. The SKS is perhaps the most misunderstood battle rifle ever when it comes to 922r.

http://www.victorinc.com/SKS-FAQ.html

TK
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Old August 26, 2013, 07:57 AM   #4
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Tahunua and Tidewater,
First, I want to thank you for your responses, and kudos for deciphering the hieroglyphic post I wrote. After your responses, I reread my original post. I myself, didn't understand what the heck I wrote. I did know, that 922r was for possession and not about firing the weapon. I also knew that there was two different Chinese SKS's available. However, I didn't know which was military grade- Sino-Soviet or just for export- Norinco. Thank you greatly for that clarification. Since what I was looking at, was Sino-Soviet, it is C&R applicaple. I also never intended to change the stock. I used the word unless, but that was never an option. I want it as original as possible. So Tidewater, thank you for the page. It did go over the in's and out's of what is acceptable, when it comes to the SKS. It also helped in stating, that if I did need to replace a piston or another part that was worn out, I could still do so and be fine. It also just explained how the C&R aspect works for them. Just like the rest of them, no permanent modifications and your still good. Thanks for all the help and clarification of this, as it was and still is greatly appreciated.
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Old August 26, 2013, 11:59 AM   #5
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The 922r requirements are about making an "assault" rifle out of a gun that was imported as a "sporting purpose" firearm. They sell all the parts, and people are eager to make an AK47 looking, high capacity "assault" rifle from their stock SKS. Never made much sense to me. An SKS is fun to shoot just as it was made. I have two Yugos, a standard Chinese commercial, a "pararooper" Chinese.(still commercial), and an Albanian. All are just fine as they were built. If you want an AK47, buy and AK47.
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Old August 26, 2013, 12:42 PM   #6
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Cheapshooter, I completely agree. I'm not for sure if my question came across as a way around a law or if I was being shady. It wasn't my intention and apologize if it came across that way. I'm not a die hard purist, but when it comes to C&R firearms, the historical value is far more interesting than any "pseudo assault weapon." But when it comes to older wartime firearm, somethings could be worn out. If that's the case, I just wanted to make sure, that I was safe replacing it. Then 922r pops up, and was confusing, and was stating things about maximum foreign parts on a gun. I just wanted to make sure I had my ducks in a row, if the BATFE came knocking on my door. Perhaps your comment was just a general statement about some people's view of thinking the 922r law was stupid. I honestly just didn't understand what was all involved with it. Once again, my apologies if it came across as shady. I just wanted to be a straight arrow.
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Old August 26, 2013, 02:31 PM   #7
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Actually, the law has to do with assembling certain rifles and shotguns that had been banned from import as "non-sporting", but of course a rifle or shotgun illegally assembled would be illegal to possess.

The rationale is that if certain firearms are banned from import in an assembled condition, it should also be illegal to import their parts and assemble them in the U.S. But, when BATF wrote the regulations, it had to decide if a firearm of the type that was banned could be made in the U.S. with any foreign parts or if so, how many parts would make it illegal under the law. The resulting regulation (27 CFR 478.89) settled (for no special reason) on ten imported parts. So a rifle or shotgun banned from import can be made or assembled in the U.S. as long as it does not have more than 10 imported parts.

Here is the law, 18 USC § 922 (r)
(r) It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925 (d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to—
(1) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or
(2) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Attorney General.

The regulation is 27 CFR 478.89, and you can Google that to get the full regulation and which parts count, as well as comments on it.

Jim
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Old August 26, 2013, 11:49 PM   #8
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that is where there is a common misconception.
just because you are replacing a part with an american part of equivalent design that does not mean that it is still stock, original and collectors condition. as soon as you replace that piston, trigger, sear etc you have "assembled a rifle from foreign parts not readily adapted to sporting use". you replace 1 part you have to replace a bunch of other things until the number of foreign parts falls to 10 or below.

the exception being norincos and other guns that were imported prior to the ban being enacted(I believe the date is december 31st 1989) where a replacement part may be used to replace a broken/unserviceable component.
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Old August 27, 2013, 10:02 AM   #9
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I am confused on a couple of things. First, there are no "private companies" making arms in China. Norinco IS North China Industries, and is wholly owned by the Peoples Liberation Army.

Second, 922 (r) applies to assembling, in the U.S. from imported parts, a gun identical to one banned from import. But an SKS that was imported, regardless of when, was not banned from import, and is not being assembled in the U.S. So I fail to see the applicability of 922 (r). I also fail to see how replacing one part (breakage, wear) would require nine additional parts to be replaced; the gun is being repaired, not assembled from parts.

The intent of the law is quite clear; I agree that there are some confusing issues, but they have nothing to do with buying an imported gun and shooting it.

Jim
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Old August 27, 2013, 01:32 PM   #10
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Jim K.,
Thank you for your input. I also agree. I don't think you need to change 9 additional parts, because of one bad one. Even the BATFE has to recognize this. There are original parts for sale out there, if one looks hard enough, or looks at all. It doesn't have to be made by Tapco, for it to work. Tidewater_kid's link was beneficial and informative and gave a good amount of info on the SKS in and out's. However, it is a bit outdated it seems. Tahunua states that 1989 was a cutoff date. Which I absolutely would/do agree with. But in the link, it states that any SKS made in china doesn't fall under the C&R category. Unless you had one grandfathered in, you can't have it. Now things have changed. The Sino-Soviets are in the US, and were manufactured, from what I can see, in 1956. Their it falls into the 50 year rule alone. Besides the other two categories that can make a C&R. I do have a question though. It states that these are Sino-Soviets, however, It says that the manufacturer was Norinco. Did Norinco make both military and solely the export version of this, or does the site that sells them have it wrong? Either way, I still want one. However, the ATF doesn't care who's fault it is. if its illegal, then the owner shall take full responsibility for knowing it.
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Old August 27, 2013, 06:50 PM   #11
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We need to understand where 922 (r) is "coming from." For whatever reasons, Congress, in the 1968 law, banned the import of firearms that were not "sporting". But they didn't ban the manufacture of such firearms in the U.S. (A little lobbying by the gun manufacturers, folks! And remember that an evil imported milsurp rifle was used to kill JFK!)

But the purpose of the law, to protect U.S. gun makers, would be defeated if companies were allowed to import foreign parts and assemble the guns in the U.S. So they specifically banned the use of IMPORTED parts to ASSEMBLE, in the US, guns that if assembled elsewhere could not be imported.

That is what 922 (r) is all about. I can't read anything into it that says you can't replace a worn sear in a legally imported SKS with a new sear, no matter where the new part is made. And I can't read anything into it that says you can't assemble from any parts, a gun identical to a gun that can be legally imported. Or that says you can't manufacture in the U.S. a gun identical to a banned gun using U.S.-made parts. Or anything that says you can't shoot a legally imported gun no matter where the parts came from.

It is only when you decide to assemble, from imported parts, or a combination of imported and domestic parts, A GUN THAT CANNOT BE LEGALLY IMPORTED, or to alter a legally imported gun in such a way that the resulting gun could not be legally imported, that 922 (r) and the parts count comes in.

Briefly, it is not HOW you put a gun together, it is WHAT you put together; it is the result that brings the gun under 922 (r).

(The issue of originality of parts to preserve collector status is totally irrelevant.)

Jim
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Old August 27, 2013, 07:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
that is where there is a common misconception. just because you are replacing a part with an american part of equivalent design that does not mean that it is still stock, original and collectors condition. as soon as you replace that piston, trigger, sear etc you have "assembled a rifle from foreign parts not readily adapted to sporting use"
Replacing worn parts are not a violation of 922r unles It is changing the configuration of the gun. A larger than 10 round magazine, folding, or collapsible stock, or pistol grip stock would be.
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Old August 29, 2013, 09:34 PM   #13
Ignition Override
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For more clarification, plenty can be found at "SKSboards.com".
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