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Old August 25, 2013, 08:12 PM   #26
breakingcontact
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Re: Has the rules of what scope is enough been changed?????

I'm trying to let go of my affection for fixed power scopes.
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Old August 25, 2013, 09:17 PM   #27
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I will tell you 2 very nice feature of fixed power scope

1) light weight... I recently mounted a leupold fixed power 2.5x20mm scope on a 30-30, and the combined weight of the scope, rings, and bases was 9.5 ounces. A couple of years ago I mounted a Nikon 1-4X20mm scope on an AR-15, and the combined weight was 15 oz. Both scopes are similar in size with a 20 mm objective lens.

2) optical quality for the price. A $200 fixed power scope with have the optical quality of a more expensive variable power... probably equivalent to a $350 scope.
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Old August 27, 2013, 02:07 PM   #28
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I believe there are no standard rifle/scope combo's...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer58cal
My dad was always a big fan of 4 power scopes and I'd have to agree 4 power is plenty for 90 percent of hunting.
Your dad must have sounded just like my dad, except instead of 4 power mine said "no one needs more than a K4". Weavers were THE scope around here at the time....LOL

To respond to the OP's question, I believe that it is not so much that the standard has changed but that there no longer is a standard. Our rifles are specialized & what we hunt, where we hunt & how we hunt is something that has expanded for most of us. Different rifles, different scopes & a variable just adds a bit more flexibility.

As a kid I'd read Outdoor life & Remchester was always advertising their latest bolt gun & the gun writers were pushing a .30-06 with a nice 3x-9x Redfield for the ultimate hunting rig. The dream they painted was that you spent the weekend shooting prairie dogs (at 9x of course) then jumped on a plane & flew to the Northpole & shoot your polar bear with a big fat 220gr corelok (at 3x of course). You being such an astute rifleman bought the one perfect gun & scope for everything!....LOL

Most hunters would scoff at my ideal whitetail rifle at 10lbs+ but it has proven itself to be perfect for what, where & how I hunt. If someone wants to take me on a mountain sheep hunt, I'll probably go out & buy a new feather weight to add to my arsenal!!! To each his own.

...bug
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Old August 27, 2013, 08:00 PM   #29
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Bumble Bug, you sound like me. The rifle I hunt whitetails with most of the time is a heavyweight Coyotee with a Bushnell 6500 4.5-30 X 50 Mil Dot.
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Old August 28, 2013, 09:09 AM   #30
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Most of my deer hunting these days is on private Texas ranches. As a guest & friend I'm usually hunting "culls". I have to be exact on the deer I target as to age & horn configurations. I also shoot a few non-trophy axis deer which have a body mass similar to a big muley so I need a "for-sure" deer cartridge. Seldom do I shoot over 150 yds.

My ideal rifle for this is a Hart heavy-barreled Rem 700 .270 Win with a 6x-20x Leupold. Some call this type of rig a "Bean-field Rifle" or "Sendero rifle". I haven't weighted it, but I wouldn't want to carry it around all day! I use the big scope to really study the deer. Of course I use binoculars, but the Leupold really is helpful & a joy to watch game through.

The last buck I shot was a 7 point, 6 year old with no brow tines. He was standing between two young 140+ class bucks!

...bug
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Old August 28, 2013, 11:32 AM   #31
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I am a big believer in being able to see as clearly as is reasonably possible. So a bigger scope with more light gathering capability and better magnification or better zoom is a real plus in my book for many (not all applications). I find it much easier to aim at a specific spot on an animal if the magnification is sufficient that the crosshairs aren't actually covering several square inches.

Quote:
Using a rifle scope as primary optic observation tool results in pointing yourrifle at targetsthat have not been identified.(Sometimes this is why folks like big scopes)
This sort of reminds me of the comment that if you put a light on your gun that everything illuminated by the light is something you are pointing AT when that just isn't true.

A competent person can look through a scope at a distant object without actually pointing a rifle AT that object.

For example, at 3:14 in this video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyU1p4uM0xM
...the shooter is aiming at a specific target, and yet as you can see, you can see several other targets in the FOV at which the shooter is not pointing his rifle. The image is the scope view (via a digital DVR jacked into the scope) from the soon-to-be released Sightmark Photon digital day/night 5x scope.

Just because you can see something in the scope does not mean your rifle is pointed at that object unless you point your rifle at that object.
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Old August 28, 2013, 11:38 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toney
Ain't no amount of power will make you a better shot.
Unless I am at a bench, higher magnification makes me a worse shot in that I indulge the reflex to make small corrections and time the sear break. Off hand, I am better with low magnification.
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Old August 29, 2013, 01:24 AM   #33
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trends

Yeah, there is definitely a trend to higher magnification and big tubes, big objectives. And a definite push in the hunting media towards "long range" hunting.

I hunt with some youger fellows who have never heard of a fixed 6x!!!!!!!
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Old August 29, 2013, 07:21 AM   #34
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As I've gotten older, I can truly appreciate the newer clearer, brighter optics & magnification... & for my everyday shooting at targets, I really like turrets that re-set to zero... but for hunting deer around here ( shotgun zone ) a 1-4X is plenty... I can however use a handgun during shotgun season in those zones... I hunt with Contenders... I started out with 2-7X handgun scopes, & they were fine for some areas, but then I started hunting on my wife's cousins property, which has public hunting ground on 3 sides, & the deer move too quickly through the thick woods... I switched to a 1-4X, & then the following year went to fiber optic open sights...

so while I can really appreciate the new scopes, as my eyes age... I've gone back to deer hunting with fiber optic open sights... of course Varmint hunting, those high power scopes are nice...

... so it really depends on what you are hunting, how & where you hunt... often the higher power scopes don't help... but other times in different conditions, they are great...
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Old August 30, 2013, 01:09 PM   #35
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I think what it comes down to is most scopes aren't bought for hunting anymore. People are putting together more and more rifles with the intent to shoot a static target at long ranges. I have a 3-9X and I rarely put it over 4 or 5 X in the field. Even that is usually to watch an approaching/crossing target beyond my comfort range.

I can use the 9X on a paper target at 100 yards off a bench though.
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Old August 30, 2013, 02:38 PM   #36
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I don't know. I know that I would rather have a decent 3x9 hunting scope with good clear picture than a crappy barska 6-24x "sniper scope" with illuminated reticules and parallax turret.

I've als heard more times than I can count that the general rule of thumb is 1 zoom for every 100 yards... well I don't know about you but I could not imagine trying to make a 400 yard kill shot on a buffalo, no less a deer or god forbid, a person with a 4x scope...

my own take on the matter is 3X to every 100 yards. I feel perfectly capable of a 400 yard shot if I've got a 12X scope or 300 with a 9x but I would seriously like to see some of the goobers that claim 1X for every 100 yards try to make a 1000 yard shot with a 10x scope, no matter the quality.
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Old August 30, 2013, 03:23 PM   #37
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1X at 100 is going to give you a sight picture roughly equivalent to irons at 100, correct? Irons at 100 seems about right to me. 2x wouldn't be too bad, but more than that and I think it would get more difficult for me personally. For starters, the more magnification the more absurd even the tiniest movement appears. It is easier for me to center the cross-hairs on a target they nearly cover than get past it bouncing around with-in the target.
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Old August 30, 2013, 05:52 PM   #38
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Quote:
So ,are you saying it is OK for you to point your rifle at me because it is unloaded?
I'm saying if I was using my scope for spotting purposes and I saw a human I would do the same thing you would do if you put your scope on an animal and noticed a person or object behind it. Move the rifle away from it immediately. I would never put my cross hairs on a human intentionally unless of course he was doing the same to me.

Are you saying it's not safe to look through your scope? How do you use your scope without looking through it? There is always a chance of something being out there. That's why you ID your target and what's behind it before you pull the trigger.

That is the primary reason I choose magnified optics over red dots and open sights for most hunting. The magnification allows you to better ID your target and what's behind it.

Boomer
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Old August 30, 2013, 06:15 PM   #39
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Quote:
if I was using my scope for spotting purposes
That is irresponsible and unsafe.
Is it even legal? Shouldn't be.
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Old August 30, 2013, 06:30 PM   #40
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Like it or not, using a scope mounted on a gun to glass the side of a hill has been done since the invention of the scope. Last thing, and I mean, last thing you need is to be looking at the government for more laws regulating what you can do with a firearm. If the gun is unloaded, then its as safe as using binoculars. Common sense has to dictate some practical reasoning here and not feed irrational fears.. Everyone's safety comfort zone is different but you have to be carful about that. Pushing your safty threshold might be viewed as hyper sensitive safety hysteria being bullied by one sportsman onto another and we dont need anymore of that these days. You should never point a loaded gun at anyone but anyone that carries a pistol in a shoulder rig is constantly sweeping people with a loaded gun. We must infer some logic that guns dont just go off and not feed the hysteria of the irrational fears. Knowingly pointing a unloaded gun at another person is more disrespectful than it is unsafe and should always be avoided if you see another hunter in the field of view of the scope.
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Old August 30, 2013, 06:58 PM   #41
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Quote:
You should never point a loaded gun at anyone but anyone that carries a pistol in a shoulder rig is constantly sweeping people with a loaded gun. We must infer some logic that guns dont just go off and not feed the hysteria of the irrational fears.
Great point. I was thinking exactly that before I got to your post.
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Old August 30, 2013, 07:12 PM   #42
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For what it's worth. If you are deer hunting,Your 3 x 9 is more than good enough. If you are dog hunting,might just as well stay home. I hunted Deer for many years with a 3 x 9, never had a issue. Hung up the hunting thing about 5 years ago now. A man with a 3 x 9 shooting dogs at 500 yards or more is a man going home with no stories. Quality has come a long way in just the last 10 years. The story of spending twice as much on your scope as your rifle is long over. With all the options out there,why limit yourself to a 3 x 9. Get something much better, 6 x 24 for example. Still able to dial down to 6 for deer ,but yet able to crank to 24 for the long shots.
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Old August 30, 2013, 08:04 PM   #43
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Tahunna, 1000 yard shots with 10x scopes happen all the time. Many times when mirage is running like crazy 1000 yard bench guns are shooting with their scopes dialed down to around 8 power. You could not shoot 1000 yards with a 10x scope that has cross hairs so big they cover the target and then some at 1000, but a lot of 1k shooting is done at 10x or less. Having said that, if conditions are right, I prefer to have low 30's to 48 power.

Last edited by reynolds357; August 31, 2013 at 05:37 PM.
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Old August 30, 2013, 08:40 PM   #44
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Quote:
You should never point a loaded gun at anyone but anyone that carries a pistol in a shoulder rig is constantlysweeping people with a loadedgun. We must infer some logicthatguns dont just go off and not feed the hysteria of the irrational fears.
That's what I thought.

On a hunting trip when I was about 16 we had all met at camp for lunch. We were eating lunch when someone in our hunting party noticed some movement across the canyon. Sure enough it was another hunter with his scope on us. At first we tried to wave him off. All we could think to do after that didn't work was take cover and put our scopes on him. The hunter immediately ran toward the brush. I can tell you right now I didn't like having a gun pointed at me and having six scopes on him give him the message in a hurry. This was the first and only time I've had a human my scope.

As far as I'm concerned it was self defense and justified.

I always confirm my target and what is beyond my target before taking the safety of.

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Old August 31, 2013, 04:19 PM   #45
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I have a 5-25 Zeiss HD5 and for me it's the perfect range of magnification. 5 is low enough for close tracking shots and being able to turn it way up has helped with load development and no need for a spotting scope for 200 yard zeroing.
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Old August 31, 2013, 05:02 PM   #46
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I originally bought a 6-24X variable scope for my .22 because I wanted to do benchrest rimfire target shooting.

Come the need to hunt rabbits at rimfire ranges, I VERY swiftly discovered this was WAY too much scope, almost unusable except at the low end, and it was down to the shop for something less... 2-7X, I think.

The higher-mag scope went onto my long range centrefire rifle where it was to my mind barely enough scope for 600yd work, and both more aperture and more magnification would have been nice; the lower-mag scope went on the bunny buster and stayed there, and usually ended up wound down to the 3-4X mark.

Shot a .303 after three years away from them today, and my first ten handloads suggest exciting possibilities for the local big game hunting season next year (run, Bullwinkle, run!). But I want to be sure of this, and I feel a lower-end scope (Magnification wise) might help me to keep my shots to ranges that are within my competence.
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Old August 31, 2013, 05:17 PM   #47
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Try the Nikon P22 2x7. I have one on my Savage BSEV. its all you ever want for a 22 scope and it will reach out to 150 yards.
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Last edited by Mystro; August 31, 2013 at 06:51 PM.
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Old August 31, 2013, 06:03 PM   #48
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every1 has proven 1 point, and it's the point i'd like to point out. as far as what scope is better, honestly it comes down to shooter preference. shoot with a scope you are comfortable with, that rule of thumb will never change. i prefer a 3-9x40, that is my preference because it is more than enough for any shot i will ever try. i like 40mm tubes simply because it gives a little more than just straight ahead, that way i can scan a little to make sure no1 is in my field of fire. i don't like being scoped, but when you're in the field it occasionally happens. we can at least give each other the curtisy of a little more so we don't make any regrettable mistakes.
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Old August 31, 2013, 06:23 PM   #49
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I can use 3x magnification @ 10 feet. So I consider that my minimum magnification, unless I needed optics for SD purposes, then 1.5x or 2x might be better. I think 3x9 or 3x12 or 3x15 is all anyone should really need for hunting, even at longer ranges.
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Old August 31, 2013, 07:06 PM   #50
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Quote:
Like it or not, using a scope mounted on a gun to glass the side of a hill has been done since the invention of the scope. Last thing, and I mean, last thing you need is to be looking at the government for more laws regulating what you can do with a firearm. If the gun is unloaded, then its as safe as using binoculars
..... and drinking and driving has been done since the invention of the automobile. Both are still stupid and irresponsible behaviors.


I'm supposed to trust that your rifle is unloaded when you are using it to scope me out?


No.

Rule #1: Allways treat all guns as if they were loaded.

Fail.

Rule#2: Never point guns at things you do not intend to destroy.

Double Fail.

Don't Do It.

It is not polite, and this is an Armed Society.
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