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Old August 26, 2013, 07:03 PM   #51
Pahoo
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Just say it plain and simple !!!

Quote:
The title of the thread is "Ethics of HUNTING for fun".

This is true and perhaps it's a language thing but in this case, it is English and I take what he says, in the body, at face value. ....

Quote:
I've been wondering about the ethics of shooting things for then fun of it.
I am fluent in American English and to me, I find this statement slightly troubling. I have asked the OP to be more specific as to what what he means. So far, he has ignored my inquires. Have no option but to suspect his agenda and point of departure. .....

Be Safe !!!
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Old August 26, 2013, 08:03 PM   #52
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Thank you buck460 for interpreting what the OP meant for us dummies ...as he did not respond when asked and comprehension of the English language weren't never my strong suit.

Also, would politely ask you to read through this thread you will understand the reasoning behind many of the posts, including mine, referring to thoughts about just killing an animal for the sake of killing it.

Feelings about killing during hunting, feelings of killing for pests control and feelings of killing for the sake of killing has all been brought up throughout the whole thread.

To answer a few of your questions in your earlier post:

Quote:
Does your pulse not quicken and your breath get short when a large buck walks out in front of you..... or a Tom gobbles off high in a tree only a hundred yards away in the darkness of morning twilight?
Yes.

Quote:
Do you ALWAYS feel disgust when you pull the trigger out of sadness of the kill?
No, not disgust. But been hunting for 45yrs and have never felt elated when I'm standing over a life I just took. No matter if it's a doe for the freezer or a monster buck, a jake or a bird with a 13" beard. If that feeling of respect for wildlife ever leaves me I'll quit hunting.

Quote:
Do you have to be prodded and complain long and loudly when you get off the couch and grab a rifle?
Yes, sometimes. Especially when it takes a long time to straighten my back out in the morning.

Quote:
Is the only form of adrenaline you feel when you hunt is the saliva in your mouth from the expected meal you may have afterwards?
Hope you don't mind. I assume you meant to put 'is' in there.

No. The adrenaline I feel is being thankful the good Lord blessed me with the strength to get out and enjoy what he has created for us to enjoy. When eating those tenderloins I thank Him for what he has blessed me with.
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Old August 26, 2013, 08:45 PM   #53
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Cut a bunch of slack on the semantics, okay? Words aren't always used the same way by different folks. Grew up with different dictionaries or usages.

I can say, "Killing Bambi's fun!" or I can say, "I derive pleasure from a successful exercise in my skill with a rifle and the knowledge of good food on the table." But I'm lazy: "Killing Bambi's fun." Besides, that second phrasing would have my friends looking at me all slaunchwise.
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Old August 26, 2013, 10:41 PM   #54
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Unfortunately there is no guarantee that wild animals are not contaminated with chemicals and other nasties they are ingesting in the wild.
I get to see them on the hoof ...... and decid to take them or not.

I have seen "downer" cows dragged to market.

I hear auction anouncements on the radio for "x head of brokemouth cows".

Do you know if any of the the ground beef you ate today came from some of this type of animal?

As for "Government Inspected" .... I don't trust the government: it's largely made of people I don't know, and have no influence upon.

Who do I trust? Some faceless functionary of a bloated organization that can't balance it's own checkbook, or my own eyes?

Oftentimes, I don't have a choice in the matter ...... but when I do, I'll take may chances with wild game I had a hand in the selection, taking and processing of .......
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Old August 26, 2013, 10:59 PM   #55
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Agree 100% jimbob86

Don't think bambi in the woods is being injected with hormones.
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Old August 26, 2013, 11:05 PM   #56
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The biggest thing: if Bambi Inthe Woods IS sick (CWD, EHD, automobile kinetic trauma, whatever) it will be apparent, if I take the time to look. BT,DTW (Been There, Done That Wrong).
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Old August 26, 2013, 11:32 PM   #57
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^^^ Too, when field dressing, inspecting main organs for abnormalities is just part of the process. Look for tumors and smell for rancid odors.
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Old August 27, 2013, 05:41 AM   #58
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Personally I don't hunt for fun. If I didn't want the meat I wouldn't do it.
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Old August 27, 2013, 06:07 AM   #59
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I used to hunt quite a bit. Now, I only put holes in paper.

I was over at Bass Pro a while back and they were running a video of coyote killing. It just did not sit well with me.

I know I have changed over the years. I hope for the better.

I have not killed a living thing ( other than bugs ) in almost 30 years. I am ok with it.
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Old August 27, 2013, 07:16 AM   #60
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My beloved sport of "hog doggin" is one I have done many times just to be out there doing it...

I have been on "catch and release" hunts which is often done just for the dogs sake... While other times we see it as a way to catch a sho-nuff warrior "bo' hawg" just for the pics then to turn him loose hoping we got the dogs put up in the right spots and people up the righht strong tree---

Quite the rush for the most part...

Brent
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Old August 27, 2013, 08:07 AM   #61
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Quote:
I never new about crop damage and the trouble they cause, I used to shoot them because I liked shooting them.

I've been wondering about the ethics of shooting things for then fun of it.
Would I be considered a bad person if I just shot rabbits because I liked doing it?

(I'm not talking about hunting for food as that is a different matter.
Just the ethics of hunting animals for the fun of the hunt.)
Quote:
The title of the thread is "Ethics of HUNTING for fun". Not "Ethics of KILLING for fun". Comes down to comprehending the written word.
the OP clearly asks about the ethics of hunting for fun (not for food or because of pest control). he states that he likes shooting animals, which I took to mean that his hobby serves no purpose other than to kill an animal for the fun of it. I don't equate the act of 'hunting' with senselessly killing an animal just for the sake of killing it, so when the OP uses the term 'hunt' to describe the act of killing an animal just to kill it is being disingenuous. the majority of gun owners that hunt an animal do so for 1) food or 2) pest control or 3) trophy hunting, so there's usually a reason to do so while having fun. but rarely do I hear about someone who kills animals just for kicks.
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Old August 27, 2013, 09:26 AM   #62
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Know what ya mean hogdogs.

Not so much as to the rush of turnin the piggies loose...not that many around here so unfortunately I've not experienced the 'piggy rush'.
But turnin those 10+lb. bass loose down in Fla. was not a problem. Same as I do when hunting, I set up some personal guidelines for myself when I fished Fla. and never stuck my fillet knife in a bass over 7lbs.
Now I did have a few of the larger bass mounted and it would have taken a better than a 15lb'er to mount another but that never happened.

But the thrill of every fishing trip was/is the same as every hunting trip. Plotting our strategies in search of our quarry and all the chain of events that happens up to the point we achieve/or fail in bagging that trophy is all part of the buildup of excitement for me. Course, I'm always hoping that luck is on my side as well cause when dealing with trophies have usually found they have a better strategy then I do.

I've posted here before that I pre-season scout and pick a buck to hunt for the following deer season. All other bucks are left to walk. Sometimes this will be a true wall hanger that is old and past his prime, sometimes a buck with a big but deformed rack with apparent bad genetics.

The cat-n-mouse game we play often lasts for more then one season. All the events leading up to me getting lucky and arrowing that buck(if that ever happens) is as exciting as when actually letting the arrow fly. Once that buck is lying in front of me, I know that I was(luckily) the better warrior that day and show him the due respect for the usually long battle we fought. He'll eat well and I'm extremely thankful for him.

Had one buck I hunted so long that had proven to be such a true warrior and I had so much respect for him that I started thinking I may have a hard time killing him if I ever did get a clean shot at him. Never did get him. Got within 20-25yds a couple times but he never presented a clean shot.

Probably died of old age caused by me chasing him around the country.

Through the rest of deer season, I'll also take a doe or two for the freezer. They are not as hard to hunt but are still trophies and I respect them in the sense that they put meat in the freezer. I'm always thankful as to how they got here in the first place, what they were put on the earth for and especially thankful I live in a country in which I'm allowed to hunt.
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Old August 27, 2013, 09:38 AM   #63
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Coyotes and pigs are not considered game to me. I'll shoot every one that I can get a sight on.
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Old August 27, 2013, 09:44 AM   #64
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Quote:
the OP clearly asks about the ethics of hunting for fun (not for food or because of pest control). he states that he likes shooting animals, which I took to mean that his hobby serves no purpose other than to kill an animal for the fun of it. I don't equate the act of 'hunting' with senselessly killing an animal just for the sake of killing it, so when the OP uses the term 'hunt' to describe the act of killing an animal just to kill it is being disingenuous. the majority of gun owners that hunt an animal do so for 1) food or 2) pest control or 3) trophy hunting, so there's usually a reason to do so while having fun. but rarely do I hear about someone who kills animals just for kicks.
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gaseousclay,

You are not the only one here that took things that way. I too read the same as you. The OP was even asked what he meant by Pahoo and didn't answer.

I hope this thread can stay open as the discussion about peoples thoughts on killing game and pests is worth the effort.

Just wish for the sake of this discussion the OP would clarify if he is talking about:
1) enjoying killing when hunting
2)enjoying killing of pests
3) enjoying just killing cause he's tired of shooting pop cans and wants to kill live targets just for the sake of killing them.

Don't think I'm alone when I say there's is a big difference in the three...so much difference that each deserve their own thread.
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Old August 27, 2013, 10:01 AM   #65
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I shoot some animals for no functional reason other than because I can, I don't like them, I enjoy the challenge. Woodchucks, crows, coyotes, pigeons and a few others are all in that group. I don't use the animal for anything at all. It's bug food. Some of the coyotes that I or my uncle shoot get skinned and the pelts kept. All the others lay there and rot.

The current prevailing thought on the topic of killing animals is quite troubling to me. There's a certain reasonable respect and then there's another thing that's way overboard. I've expressed my views on it before, in that link if anyone wants the long version. The short version is, you all realize that Walt Disney's Bambi wan't an actual nature documentary, right?
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Old August 27, 2013, 10:03 AM   #66
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I didn't have any trouble understanding what the OP meant. Whether or not a particular course of action makes you a 'bad person' is a moral question, to be evaluated and answered by the individual.

When I was very young, I used to shoot things just for the hell of it. Convinced I was headed off to war, I felt the need to develop an ability to kill w/o compunction.

These many years later, I don't kill anything that isn't a pest or doesn't go to the table. Anything that is a threat gets disposed of w/o a second thought.
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Old August 27, 2013, 10:26 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twins
If it's legal in your area, no argument from me.

If it is not, then I would recommend you seek psychiatric help. Why kill innocent animals to get your thrill? Is it the act of killing or shooting? If shooting gives you the same thrill, go to a range and poke holes in paper.
This suggests that all hunting restrictions are malum in se in nature, i.e. because the prohibited behavior is inherently bad and is legally prohibited because the act runs afoul of some greater ethical framework. That is not a sound assumption. Some acts are prohibited simply because they are illegal, and not inherently bad.

Someone who acts ethically but in contravention of a simple or arbitrary legal prohibition would not need psychiatric help.

Moreover, the behavioral differences between animals and paper can make hunting animals more interesting and challenging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by twins
There's nothing ethical about hunting/shooting animals for the fun of the hunt. There are purposes to hunting (food, protection, disease control, etc.) and killing for fun isn't one. If one seek it, they're just a cold-blooded animal killer.
There is nothing wrong with cold-bloodedly killing an animal. On the contrary to entertain sentimentality over a correct act could indicate that one has not correctly assessed the act itself.

If I see a fly, I swat it. If I find a groundhog near my home, I shoot it. In fact, I had a whole Elmer Fudd/Bugs Bunny routine with a very large groundhog over the course of months and regretted only the loss of the ongoing challenge when I finally killed him.

One of the older fellows and my firm used to shoot rats at the city dump for fun. That sounds enormously entertaining to me.

I understand that in my state deer are legally a game animal, however in my area they really function as a larger mosquito or groundhog (except of course that a groundhog does not ruin your car if you hit one). Killing one out of season would be illegal, but not an act inherently evil, so the act would not be an indicator of psychological pathology.

None of the above acts appear to be ethically distinguishable, so unless one is prepared to chide the fellow with a flyswatter, chiding a fellow with a rifle and a sense of entertainment appears to be a choice in fashion, not ethics.
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Old August 27, 2013, 10:29 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted byshortwave:

No, not disgust. But been hunting for 45yrs and have never felt elated when I'm standing over a life I just took. No matter if it's a doe for the freezer or a monster buck, a jake or a bird with a 13" beard. If that feeling of respect for wildlife ever leaves me I'll quit hunting.

Guess I've only been hunting a few years longer than you. I too do not enjoy having to take a life in order to complete the hunt. That disappeared about the time the hair on my chin started to grow. One reason I enjoy bow hunting. In most scenarios the deer runs off and by the time you find it, it is dead and at peace. No so much when you hunt with a rifle. One reason I enjoy C&R for Esox. I have often wished one could do it while hunting deer or turkey too. One reason I pass on so many I guess. Taking a life is basically what hunting with a weapon is all about, regardless if one is only after food or enjoying the sport. While the ethics of hunting have been hashed over and over again here and on every other firearm forum in the universe, it comes down to what's legal. Folks pay big leases on for hunting land or invest thousands of dollars for hunting land. The meat itself cannot justify these costs. Folks pay to hunt on high fence ranches or for birds to be released on shooting preserves. Cost factor there too is more than the value of the meat. Folks in the lower 48 that have the time and the money to have a computer and internet access are hard pressed to claim they need to hunt for food. There must be another driving force behind it. It could be related to the drive of a million years to survive and the instinct in all of us to hunt and gather, I dunno. But I know, even when I come home tired, cold, wet, with my legs cramping and nuttin' to show for it, I still had a good time. If there's somethin' in the back of the truck to butcher tomorrow, it's bonus. If you don't agree, so be it. As long as he hunts legally, I really don't care about the OP's ethics, just mine. Folks that get a thrill outta just watchin' something die are sick.....on that we agree.

Quote:
Originally posted byshortwave:

Hope you don't mind. I assume you meant to put 'is' in there.
No, I didn't. The verb "is" was already at the beginning of the sentence. But then, grammar is not the subject of this thread. We probably should stay on topic.

I too hope this thread stays open and have tried to be civil and respect other opinions. Just as I hope folks don't feel the need to add words to my posts, I appreciate it when they don't feel the need to put words in my mouth. No where did I ever state I hunted for the thrill of the kill. Suggesting that in anyway, is putting words in my mouth. Like most here....I hunt for the thrill of the hunt. Big difference.
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Old August 27, 2013, 10:49 AM   #69
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Where do you draw the line ?

Quote:
I was over at Bass Pro a while back and they were running a video of coyote killing. It just did not sit well with me.
Now that would not bother me but do respect your feelings. I once saw a guy at a Gun-Show, that was walking around with a Garland of skinned out Coyote noses, around his neck. There's a picture for you. .......

Look, I really do not need much of a reason to "kill" any animal, but I always have a reason and it's never for the sheer fun of it. I won't list the animals I have killed as I don't need any more PM's. I once passed on a Bobcat and when I told the landowner about it, he got ticked off about it.
On a "Hunt", the kill, is the icing on the cake but the cake is still fine without it. .....

Be Ethical;
Be Safe !!!
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Old August 27, 2013, 12:01 PM   #70
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Quote:
Look, I really do not need much of a reason to "kill" any animal, but I always have a reason and it's never for the sheer fun of it. I won't list the animals I have killed as I don't need any more PM's. I once passed on a Bobcat and when I told the landowner about it, he got ticked off about it.
On a "Hunt", the kill, is the icing on the cake but the cake is still fine without it. .....
Know what you mean Pahoo. A friend of mine and I used to kill every snake we came across. Have lived in the country for the last half of my life and have learned there is a need for them. So most snakes around here get a pass. Unless they are poisonous.

Currently have a black rat snake that's about a nine footer living in a tree not more than 15' from the front door. Soon as momma finds out he's still there he may have to go.
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