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Old August 23, 2013, 08:12 PM   #26
trg42wraglefragle
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When I was first able to go out shooting alone at around 13 or 14, I never really thought of what I was shooting as pests, I was shooting what I was told I was allowed to shoot, and doing so because I loved hunting/shooting.

Now I'm older I would certainly say I have a lot more respect for what I am shooting, and can empathise more, but I know I'm now killing pests.

What about shooting for sport then?
In some places duck shooting, or upland game shooting is very very popular, and done so under the name of sport, or tradition. Sure most people eat what they shoot, but some do not, and the food part is now only a secondary thing.

How would you say this fits into the who ethics thing?
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Old August 23, 2013, 08:21 PM   #27
sc928porsche
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I hunt for fun. The challenge, the scenery, and a chance to get outdoors. I also enjoy the taste of game. While hunting pests can be a necessity, usually it isnt but it does help protect property. I can go down to the store and buy beef, but an occasional elk or venison stew sure goes down with glee.
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Old August 23, 2013, 08:27 PM   #28
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No question that the main issue with hunting ethics is to not let an animal suffer. I cried when I had to put down my previous dog (humanely, an injection from the vet). Just couldn't stand to see him suffer (blind, in constant pain).

As for hunting I will never take a shot I don't think will be a kill shot. Wounding an animal is the most unethical thing that can happen. I think it is irresponsible to take a long distance shot at game (large game is taken at an average of 75yds). Anyone who tells stories about shooting a deer or elk at 5,6, or 700yds ++. Is either lying or just damn lucky.

As for varmints, they carry disease, destroy crops and are a menace. My foxhound leaves dead rabbits in my garden for me, I trap or poison rats in my garage and after my mother lost 2 beagles to the coyotes, I took a little hunting trip out to her place.

Edit-elk are beautiful animals...they taste beautiful too. Plus, grow most of my own vegetables, and don't want to eat meat filled with hormones, antibiotics and what ever else they get in feedlots

Last edited by Sierra280; August 23, 2013 at 08:37 PM.
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Old August 23, 2013, 09:04 PM   #29
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Ethics of hunting for fun

I wouldn't kill an animal for fun unless I was going to eat it or if it was for pest control. Killing an animal just because you can is wrong IMO. It's certainly not the example I'd set for my boy when he's old enough to shoot. To each their own though
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Old August 23, 2013, 10:55 PM   #30
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So long as they're hunting within the law and their goal is to dispatch the animal as quickly and cleanly as possible, who cares if they are getting enjoyment out of it or not?
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Old August 24, 2013, 10:53 AM   #31
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Killing for fun, is just killing !!!

In the past, I have been involved on two types of Hunt/Kills;

Conservation Effort;
Mostly just killing and really not much fun. Just a degree of satisfaction on getting the job done. Most of these kills, I would not eat or brag about. ...

Hunting;
Lots of enjoyment in the preparation, enjoying the what the day presents and pleasing the pallet. On these days, I never measure it by what I kill. If that was my goal, I would have been discouraged years ago. ....

Be Safe !!!
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Old August 24, 2013, 10:54 AM   #32
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Thinking about it, I'd venture that there could be some semantic confusion between "fun" and "purposeless".

It strikes me as sorta uncool to pull trigger for no good reason beyond watching something die. Purpose. But how can it not be fun to kill a deer in the knowledge of good eats to come? And maybe some bragging around the campfire?

Just don't fool yourself about why you do what you do. "If you never lie to yourself, I won't worry about your lying to me."
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Old August 24, 2013, 01:21 PM   #33
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I must agree with the majority here in that killing just for the sake of killing is sick. For me it is a kind of perversion. I love hunting and do derive a sense of satisfaction from a successful hunt, whether it is a dead pest or good eats to come. I must admit that with every kill I have a slight sense of sadness for the animal. It doesn't last long but it is there. It quickly fades then the celebration and/or work begins.
If a hunter obeys the laws and does his best for a clean, quick kill I don't really care how he feels about it. Life's too short for that sort of thing.
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Old August 25, 2013, 01:42 AM   #34
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How is this different from fishing. I never have to defend how much fin fishing is... It sounds like a load of BS to me.

Tony
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Old August 25, 2013, 09:26 AM   #35
Art Eatman
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Geezerbiker, there are some people who flat-out don't like for people to "have fun" if the activity is one which they don't like. And they commonly get mouthy about it. Car racing, dancing, hunting, football, you name it, they're against it.

It doesn't hurt a thing to discuss an issue and clarify one's thinking...
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Old August 25, 2013, 03:34 PM   #36
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Shortwave, I too live in Ohio, and have seen an explosion in racoon overpopulations since the decline of the fur industry. I truly think its time to reclassify them, or at the very least, expand the season immensly.
TimSr,

When talking to ODNR, I was told that the pelt bounty was going up to $20/pelt this year. Just not enough people trapping these days to keep the pests population under control. Your right...an extension of the coon season would help or flat classify them as a pest with open season.

There was a time in my life(teens and 20's) that when hunting with 'the fella's' ,it was a competition. Didn't matter if we were hunting rabbits, pheasants, grouse, woodcock, squirrel deer etc. Same when we went fishing...competition. Had to kill or catch the most and the biggest.
We had a lot of fun in those days but not near as much fun as I've had in my latter years. I release more fish now than I keep and let more game walk than I used to. I get much more enjoyment out of watching wildlife then disturbing it and find my early season scouting adventure's more enjoyable every year that goes by.

Was out a couple weeks ago in a five acre clover plot up on the ridge and got the opportunity of watching a doe fend off a small buck that was harassing her fawn. The buck would try and get close to the fawn and the doe would run him all over the field. A couple times they went face to face rising up on their hind legs like two prize fighters in the ring. Trust me when I tell ya that that doe 'out boxed' that buck ten to one.
A true pleasure to sit and watch.

I think sometimes, respect for all life increases as we get older. We see more of our family/friends pass...bury our pets... and as hunters, we've had a life time of killing.

I may have enjoyed the competition of the hunt in my early years with my hunting pals/family and today, still shoot what I need enjoying hunting still yet. But make no mistake...never have been one to kill something just for the sake of killing it.

Last edited by shortwave; August 26, 2013 at 12:08 AM.
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Old August 25, 2013, 11:59 PM   #37
trg42wraglefragle
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How is this different from fishing. I never have to defend how much fin fishing is... It sounds like a load of BS to me.

Tony
That is an excellent point that I have never considered before.

Perhaps for some reason cute fluffy bunnies are somewhat more important than smelly fish? It's like vegetarians who wont eat meat, but will eat chicken and fish???

Because chicken and fish is not real meat?
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Old August 26, 2013, 06:25 AM   #38
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"How is this different from fishing. I never have to defend how much fin fishing is... It sounds like a load of BS to me."

I guess if fishermen left their catch on the bank to rot, we might question the ethics then. There is a difference from killing for food, killing for necessity, and just killing for "sport" whether one uses a gun or a rod and reel. I just never have heard of a fisherman leaving his catch on the bank instead of catch and release.
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Old August 26, 2013, 07:14 AM   #39
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Originally posted byArt Eatman:

Just don't fool yourself about why you do what you do. "If you never lie to yourself, I won't worry about your lying to me."

^^^Exactly. For those claiming they don't hunt for fun, let me ask you this. Does your pulse not quicken and your breath get short when a large buck walks out in front of you..... or a Tom gobbles off high in a tree only a hundred yards away in the darkness of morning twilight? Do you ALWAYS feel disgust when you pull the trigger out of sadness of the kill? Do you have to be prodded and complain long and loudly when you get off the couch and grab a rifle? Is the only form of adrenaline you feel when you hunt the saliva in your mouth from the expected meal you may have afterwards?

Yeah....I thought so.
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Old August 26, 2013, 09:12 AM   #40
shortwave
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Quote:
Originally posted byArt Eatman:

Just don't fool yourself about why you do what you do. "If you never lie to yourself, I won't worry about your lying to me."
Quote:
^^^Exactly. For those claiming they don't hunt for fun, let me ask you this. Does your pulse not quicken and your breath get short when a large buck walks out in front of you..... or a Tom gobbles off high in a tree only a hundred yards away in the darkness of morning twilight? Do you ALWAYS feel disgust when you pull the trigger out of sadness of the kill? Do you have to be prodded and complain long and loudly when you get off the couch and grab a rifle? Is the only form of adrenaline you feel when you hunt the saliva in your mouth from the expected meal you may have afterwards?
The flip side to buck460XVR's post is if I grab my rifle and go out for no other enjoyment other then taking that life and nothing about the hunt but looking at that dead animal I just killed gives me a sense of great euphoria then I may have a problem , shouldn't lie to myself about it and should probably seek some professional help.
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Old August 26, 2013, 09:19 AM   #41
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Perhaps for some reason cute fluffy bunnies are somewhat more important than smelly fish?
Smelly fish?

Evidently you have not smelled the inside of a fluffy bunny.....

Teh insides of a cornfed steer are pretty rank, too ........

The thing is, when I see a dead deer I just killed, I dont see a dead animal: I see a soon to be filled freezer....... I also see a lot of work immediately ahead ...... but it is good, honest, rewarding work, wherein the rewards of good performance are immedately apparent, so I enjoy it.
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Old August 26, 2013, 09:57 AM   #42
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^^^ Far as smell goes...would rather clean 100 rabbits or fish then one gut shot deer or a gobbler that's been feeding all morning.

Probably the most stinkin thing I ever dressed was an opossum. Made the mistake of doing a favor and shooting one for a co-worker. Plain NASTY!
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Old August 26, 2013, 01:48 PM   #43
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Hunting is fun, that said I never go out and shoot animals for the fun of it with no purpose in mind.
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Old August 26, 2013, 02:34 PM   #44
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Probably the most stinkin thing I ever dressed was an opossum.
FWIW, I would. not. touch. an. opposum. Not even with a stick.

One fine Firearm Deer Season Opener I passed a freshly run over skunk by the side of the road, at about 4AM ....... he was not there the evening before ..... I hunted all day ... which was unseasonably warm ...... and went back to camp the same way, passing the deceased skunk about an hour after dark ...... and saw the back half of a small oppossum sticking out of the dead skunk, the which was moving around quite a bit as the nasty little bugger was chowing down from the inside ...... ewwwwwww.
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Old August 26, 2013, 03:22 PM   #45
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Up in Wyoming over Independence Day at our family reunion, my Dad's High School pal that owns the lodge we stayed at asked if I brought a 22 with me. We had been talking guns, hunting etc and had a good time showing and discussing several different guns we had with us. Well, of course I brought a 22 - a 1906 Winchester pump.

Turns out the groundhogs, gophers, prairie dogs and ground squirrels had been making a mess of his ditches, pastures and garden and he wanted some lead-based pest control. He told me "I can't see the da$% sights anymore, if you don't mind, would you get rid of as many of those varmints as you can?" I was all too happy to oblige.

NOW. I think I speak for the vast majority when I say I jumped at the chance to hunt varmints not out of a joy of killing, but out of a chance to test my skills. I was happy to help out my Dad's friend, of course, but where better could I practice my stalking, target acquisition, hold, trigger control etc than on a live target?

It was a great hunt, dispatched about 30 critters in an hour. Could have gotten more if I had had more time but I hope it helped. Did I dispatch them humanely? Yes, as best I could. Did I feel bad about the one or two I had to shoot twice? Of course.
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Old August 26, 2013, 03:37 PM   #46
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"While many folks out there try and justify their hunting because of the meat they bring home, most times the meat is just a bonus. The cost of gas, licenses, ammo, guns/bows, gear, lease fees etc., makes most game meat pricier than quality store bought."

The sticking point here is "quality store bought". I've gone through a few donnybooks with peple over this but in discussing it with hree different doctors who are in agreement with me, even one who it totally vegan.

Quality store bought? There ain't no such animal. Not after it's been fed chemicals to make it gain weigth, antibiotics
to insure it does not get sick and God only knows what else. That cow elk I took early this year may have been very expensive meat but it was not filled with the crap they use at the feed lots.
Look at the obesity problem in this country. Look at eleven year old gitls growing breasts and having periods. What for how come is this happening? Could it be all those female hormones fed to the animals that become the meat they eat? And how about all the antibiotic resistant germs that seem to be evolving? Could the antibiotic laden food given to livestock at the feedlots potentially be the cause? Even the First lady, and God know what I think of her has asled the FDA to look into those two subjects and if she can see a problem, why in the hell don't WE THE PEOPLE?
So yes, my wife and I eat extremely expensive meat. I hunt it. I kill it and I eat it. Last of all, I enjoy the whole process from preperation, to the stalk to the kill, gutting, cutting wapping freezing thawinf and cooking and eating that very expensivemeat. To paraphrase a beauty product commercial," My wife and I are worth it."
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Old August 26, 2013, 03:48 PM   #47
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Quality store bought? There ain't no such animal. Not after it's been fed chemicals to make it gain weigth, antibiotics
to insure it does not get sick and God only knows what else. That cow elk I took early this year may have been very expensive meat but it was not filled with the crap they use at the feed lots.
Unfortunately there is no guarantee that wild animals are not contaminated with chemicals and other nasties they are ingesting in the wild. At least meat bought has to be of a certain standard and is tested fit for human consumption. The problem with obesity is eating to much more than type of food.
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Old August 26, 2013, 03:48 PM   #48
Rikakiah
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Although, how do you know the quality of the deer you shot out in the field, either? I'm not trying to be judgmental or anything, as I honestly have no experience with game in any fashion. However, unless you tracked this deer from birth and monitored its food intake and livelihood, how can you make anything more than an educated guess based on it "looking" overall in decent shape? Who knows what crap it scrounged in the field for survival? I'd expect that a lot of slaughterhouse animals "look" decent, too.

I guess you do skip the processing step and preservation "treatments", which aren't exactly the best thing for consumers.
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Old August 26, 2013, 04:06 PM   #49
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Rikakiah, you should do some research on where and how your store bought meat gets there. I very much agree with Paul b, however, he keeps referring to cow elk as very expensive, everytime i've added up the hunting license, tag cost, ammo, and gas and food for the trip (we'll leave the rifle out of it), elk is way cheaper than beef. I've even got a connection for all natural grass fed lamb I get a whole or half, every year (at $3 a lb I'm happy to pay it)
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Old August 26, 2013, 05:34 PM   #50
buck460XVR
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Quote:
Originally posted by shortwave:

The flip side to buck460XVR's post is if I grab my rifle and go out for no other enjoyment other then taking that life and nothing about the hunt but looking at that dead animal I just killed gives me a sense of great euphoria then I may have a problem , shouldn't lie to myself about it and should probably seek some professional help.

The title of the thread is "Ethics of HUNTING for fun". Not "Ethics of KILLING for fun". Comes down to comprehending the written word.
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