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Old August 22, 2013, 04:42 PM   #1
Opinated
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Winchester .22 pump.

Went into a pawn shop today. Fellow, potential customer, was holding what I thought was a Winchester 62A-- but I had just walked in from the bright sunshine. Got closer and the barrel was hex shaped - so I think Model 90. He turned it every which way and no model number appeared. On the top of the barrel just in front of the receiver was stamped .22 Long.
The 62A, a later rifle than the 90, and with a round barrel, handles short, long and long rifle interchangeably, even mixed in the magazine. I think I recall seeing some Model 90 chambered for short only.
The fellow bought it, at a great price in my opinion even though it was far from perfect condition. If he had not, I would have bought it.
So what is the probable model of that rifle? I do not remember seeing any .22 long ammo in the last 50 years and have seen only a few boxes in my (long) lifetime. I know that the casing is the same as the long rifle. Is the bullet that of the short? Overall length same as the long rifle or shorter?
Lots of questions.

Last edited by Opinated; August 24, 2013 at 06:33 PM.
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Old August 22, 2013, 04:59 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opiniated

So what is the probable model of that rifle ? -
IMO it was an 1890, the only model made for specific .22RF chamberings.

I know that the casing is the same as the long rifle. Is the bullet that of the short ? - Yes

Overall length same as the long rifle or shorter ? - a tad shorter, IIRC.



I hope that helps you.


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Old August 22, 2013, 06:33 PM   #3
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When and where did anyone last see .22 longs for sale?

As an aside, Remington produced in the mid-to-late 50s a .22 short called the Rocket. Packed 30 to the package and with a frangible bullet (as I remember it). Perhaps lighter than lead. Seemed to be a hot load based on the noise. Local store sold them for $.30 per package-- ah, the good old days. I pulled the trigger on lots of those.
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Old August 24, 2013, 11:27 AM   #4
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PetahW pretty well nailed it.

The 1890 was chambered in 22 long, which was a LR case with a shorter, lighter bullet. I've got an 1890 so chambered that belonged to my great grandfather, originally purchased in 1927, if I'm not mistaken.

Ammo is not impossible to come by, but you often have to settle for .22 CB Long instead of the full power rounds. I will say that I haven't seen any in a little while, and given the rush on ammo, and I suspect that none of the major manufacturers will be devoting a production run to something relatively obscure for quite a while. In other words, I do buy everything I can when I get the opportunity.
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Old August 24, 2013, 11:53 AM   #5
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.

I actually bought an old box of .22 Longs (50) last month @ an LGS, can you believe it ?

Since I don't currently own a "longs-only" gun, I shot them up in my Winchester 69.



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Old August 24, 2013, 04:39 PM   #6
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CCI, Winchester, Remington, and Aguila all sell products suitable for a .22 Long chamber. Some of them are sold as .22 LR, but the 30 gr bullets really just make them a high velocity .22 Long.


Quote:
When and where did anyone last see .22 longs for sale?
Last year - new production CCI and Winchester.
CCI produces their .22 Long and .22 CB Long loads almost every year.
Winchester produces their .22 Long CB load every 2 to 4 years, and their .22 Long load every 2 to 3 years. (They also regularly produce .22 WRF, if you were unaware.)

Remington's production is a total crapshoot. Sometimes, they go more than 10 years between runs.
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Old August 24, 2013, 06:40 PM   #7
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In the time since I was last reading here, I thought about how to possibly modify .22 LR to .22 long. Pressing the bullet deeper to the desired overall length would seem to be one way. But only for those much braver than I. Since it is a rimfire, the danger seems too much for me. Trimming off the nose of the bullet would be another-- but would be tedious and would most likely ruin any accuracy. Buying the lighter bullet .22 LR and checking the OA length looks like a good choice.
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Old August 25, 2013, 01:12 AM   #8
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Yea. Just going with the shorter (lighter) loads, and checking OAL and chamber fit are a much better idea than arbitrarily jamming 40 grain bullets deeper into .22 LR loads.
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Old August 25, 2013, 03:08 AM   #9
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Quote:
When and where did anyone last see .22 longs for sale?
Bought a bumch of new CCI 22 long when the crunch hit. All my .22s are bolt action and revolvers so it was nice to have that option. The shelves were not overflowing with it but it was nice to see that not many others bought it.
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Old August 25, 2013, 04:55 PM   #10
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Opinated,

Trying to modify the oal of a .22 LR round wouldn't be worth the trouble, I think. Since a .22 utilizes a heeled bullet, attempting to seat it deeper is not just dangerous, it's impossible.
Seems to me that years ago there was a jig or a die that would allow for trimming of a LR round to L length, but I'm fairly certain that if they even existed, they're long gone now due to product liability laws.

FrankenMauser,

Thanks for the info re: 30 grain loads. I had not thought about using those, but may have to give it a try once availability returns to normal levels. I'd like to have something with a bit more punch than the CB loads for the occasional squirrel or rabbit.
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Old January 24, 2016, 02:13 PM   #11
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Winchester Model 90

Have seen some listings for Model 90's that have an "A" as part of the S/N or stamped below the S/N. Must mean something?
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Old January 24, 2016, 08:04 PM   #12
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There's also that pesky slow twist barrel on 22 longs. If you shoot the 29 or so grain "long" cartridge they will stabilize, but not the 40 grain long rifles.

A lot of fellas learned the hard way when they rechambered 22 shorts or longs to long rifle, it doesn't work so good.
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Old January 24, 2016, 10:51 PM   #13
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Howdy

If it is what I think it is it was called the Model 1890, not Model 90. Designed by the great John M Browning. The first 22 caliber rifle Winchester sold specifically designed for 22 Rimfire ammo. The original Gallery Rifle.

Twenty four inch octagon (not hexagon) barrel. Crescent shaped buttplate. Specifically chambered for 22 Short, 22 Long, OR 22 Long Rifle. Not all three.

The most common chambering for the Model 1890 was 22 Short, because that is what was usually fired in shooting galleries at carnivals, boardwalks, and circus midways. I shot one when I was a kid at Jones Beach on Long Island with my Grandparents. Second most common chambering was 22 Long, third most common, and the last chambering to be adopted was 22 Long Rifle.

The rifle at the top of the photo is a Model 1890.








The shorter rifle in the photo at top is a Winchester Model 1906. Predecessor to the Model 62A. The Model '06 was a lower cost version of the Model 1890. Twenty inch round barrel, able to digest 22 Shorts, Longs, AND Long Rifles interchangeably. Straight 'shotgun' style buttplate, and less expensive wood than walnut. I think mine is birch, or some other light colored hardwood, stained to look like walnut.

My Grandfather bought my Model '06 for my Dad in Abercrombie and Fitch in Manhattan in the 1930s. Yes, Abercombie and Fitch had a whole floor devoted to guns, and they even had a shooting range in the basement.

Here is a photo of my Dad shooting his/my Model '06 in Maine in 1931.

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Old January 24, 2016, 11:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Winchester Model 90
Have seen some listings for Model 90's that have an "A" as part of the S/N or stamped below the S/N. Must mean something?
You'll never get a straight answer on this.

Even Winchester historians, let alone collectors, argue about what the 'A's and 'B's mean on old Winchesters.
Confounding the search for truth is the fact that Winchester dropped the letters without any alternative marking, after they changed the orientation of the serial number on some models and no longer had room for the extra character.
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Old February 5, 2016, 12:28 PM   #15
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Winchester Model 1890 w/"A" below s/n

Have a Winchester Model 1890 S/N 540XXX, Mfg. 1915. The S/N below the receiver has an "A" stamped under the S/N. The S/N at the top of of of the stock does not. Anybody know what this means? Thanks, Andy B.
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Old February 5, 2016, 01:04 PM   #16
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Drifty, not only did your father have excellent taste in firearms, but also a snappy dresser. Great photo.
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