The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > General Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 19, 2013, 07:09 PM   #1
dakota.potts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 25, 2013
Location: Saint Augustine, Florida
Posts: 1,157
NYPD/Bloomberg press conference points hundreds of guns at reporters

http://bearingarms.com/in-the-best-o...-at-reporters/

In a pretty blatant safety violation, this NYPD/Bloomberg press conference featured many guns pointed directly at the reporters. These are everything from SAA revolvers to Tec 9 pistols all pointed in the direction of the audience. No bolts are open, magazines are in, and many safeties are off. I'm not sure they know what a chamber flag is.

I could almost forgive a single egregious safety error, but it seems as if they literally made no effort to make it safer at all. Is it to make people afraid and make the fear seem more real of these "street guns"? Is it SOP?

I'm a little puzzled.
dakota.potts is offline  
Old August 19, 2013, 07:14 PM   #2
zxcvbob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2007
Location: S.E. Minnesota
Posts: 4,185
It's rude, but not really unsafe unless someone reaches for one. There is no one with his hands anywhere near the table.
__________________
"The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun"
zxcvbob is online now  
Old August 19, 2013, 07:46 PM   #3
Tom Servo
Staff
 
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 10,322
It's only as unsafe as any gun show table or gun store display. Is it possibly bad form? Yes. Do we expect any better from someone who's using them for political gain? Probably not.
__________________
In the depth of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer.
--Albert Camus
Tom Servo is offline  
Old August 19, 2013, 07:56 PM   #4
Vanya
Staff
 
Join Date: July 7, 2008
Location: Upper midwest
Posts: 3,877
Just for the record, if one clicks on the image and looks at it full-size, there are no magazines visible in any of the pistols.

So it's not quite as bad as the article makes it out to be.
__________________
"Once the writer in every individual comes to life (and that time is not far off), we are in for an age of universal deafness and lack of understanding."
(Milan Kundera, Book of Laughter and Forgetting, 1980)
Vanya is offline  
Old August 19, 2013, 08:15 PM   #5
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
Vanya, did we not just have a thread about "All guns are always loaded," vs "keep guns unloaded until ready to use"?

I don't recall if you contributed to that particular thread, but according to pax, Brian Pfleuger, and many others (me too), the lack of magazines doesn't excuse bad handling.

LE should know better.

My 12yo cousin knew better. He asked me once what I'd do, when I was preparing to teach him to shoot, if he accidentally pointed a gun at me. I told him I'd punch him in the head.

He didn't believe me.

His mother and grandmother then told him, "he will punch you in the head, and if he doesn't, we will."

Kid nailed his hunter safety course. Best shot in his class (mix of kids and adults), and safest gun handler.

Cops should know better than a 12yo...
MLeake is offline  
Old August 19, 2013, 08:19 PM   #6
Armed_Chicagoan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2013
Location: Albany Park, Chicago
Posts: 286
Bloomberg is an amateur. Chicago's Mayor Daley, at a similar press conference, once threatened to stick a rifle up a reporter's butt and fire it as he held said rifle, while Diane Feinstein held up an AK-47, drum magazine inserted, finger on the trigger, not pointed in a safe direction at one of her anti-gun press conferences. Notice the woman to Feinstein's left is none other than Colorado Rep. Diana "magazines are bullets" DeGette, supposedly (according to her supporters anyway) one of the biggest firearms experts in Congress.

Talk about gun nuts...
Armed_Chicagoan is offline  
Old August 19, 2013, 08:52 PM   #7
dakota.potts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 25, 2013
Location: Saint Augustine, Florida
Posts: 1,157
There is a magazine in the AK and the Tec-9.

At a gun show, you sometimes get swept, but I am also disgusted when I see gun shows were tables have guns blatantly pointing at people walking the rows. The big difference with gunshows is that, frankly, there is NO safe direction for a muzzle to point unless the entire show is one long hall with all of the rifles pointed at a solid wall that makes a good backstop with all vendors standing in front of the tables. Otherwise, someone's going to get swept.

In this circumstance, there is no reason they couldn't be hung up on a wall facing the roof or the floor or one of the side walls. They didn't even make an attempt at trying to follow the rules. There aren't even chamber flags. It's not like a gun show, in my opinion. The safety violations are much worse.
dakota.potts is offline  
Old August 19, 2013, 09:51 PM   #8
sigcurious
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2011
Posts: 1,755
Quote:
there is NO safe direction for a muzzle
If one includes the time when no one is physically touching a firearm(or in the process of, ie set the gun down while at the range etc), this is the realistic truth in most circumstances. Pointing at the ceiling, floor or wall is not inherently safer without knowing the building and most buildings are not going to create safety. Just because you can't see what on the other side does not mean there aren't people there, or that they're any safer.

I certainly wouldn't advocate for unsafe gun handling, but is a firearm on a table being handled? Do guns just go off without human interaction? I'd say no to both.
sigcurious is offline  
Old August 19, 2013, 10:17 PM   #9
Bartholomew Roberts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 5,675
Quote:
It's only as unsafe as any gun show table or gun store display.
Around here, gun shows since the late 80s or so have required that the actions be ziptied open so you have both a way to prevent rounds from being chambered and a visual indicator the weapon is clear.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old August 20, 2013, 10:07 AM   #10
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,686
And still we get NDs at TX shows. It's usually the fault of the dealer.

Anyway, go to Bass Pro, Academy or Cabelas or many TX LGS. Rows of close semis with magazines. I find the outrage at touch disingenuous. Who has fled Bass Pro or Cabela's in terror or complained the management? Good stores clear the weapon before letting you handle it.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old August 20, 2013, 10:38 AM   #11
David13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 243
In my NRA RSO class (me: student) this Sunday, the instructor said "somebody's been watching too much tv".
The gun is an inanimate object. The gun cannot fire itself.
The 'anti's' 'freak out' if they see a gun. They 'freak out' if they know a gun exists. They 'freak out' if they know there is a gun in the same city as where they are.
Then they come to the conclusion that 'no gun must exist'. All guns must be destroyed. That is the only way we can be "safe".
Guns are really not quite that dangerous.
dc
David13 is offline  
Old August 20, 2013, 12:50 PM   #12
dakota.potts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 25, 2013
Location: Saint Augustine, Florida
Posts: 1,157
I do personally complain when muzzles are pointing at people if there is an obvious solution otherwise. My local shop has the muzzles pointed directly upward on rifles and the pistols in the cases point either to the side (facing neither dealer no buyer) or directly down. It is still not a perfectly safe direction, but concessions are made.

My biggest issue here is that there was not a single attempt made in any fashion. Magazines in, safeties off, bolts closed, all weapons pointed directly at the audience. IF they had even chamber flags or something it wouldn't be that big a deal. I go to a gunshow knowing that I may get swept by a less-than-safety conscious dealer or someone picking up a gun, but I expect more from a mayor and police force.
dakota.potts is offline  
Old August 20, 2013, 01:02 PM   #13
sigcurious
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2011
Posts: 1,755
Quote:
the pistols in the cases point either to the side (facing neither dealer no buyer)
You seem to be entirely focused on the visible people. Just because they're not pointing at the dealer or buyer doesn't mean they're not pointing at people in the store next door or outside.

You we're just asking about pocket pistols for guitar performances. Some of which would have been in a seated position, other times while you would be jumping around with a loaded pistol. Both of which would end up muzzling people with a loaded pistol. Somehow this is less of a danger than a pistol just sitting there in a case or on a table because it can't be seen?
sigcurious is offline  
Old August 20, 2013, 01:41 PM   #14
dakota.potts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 25, 2013
Location: Saint Augustine, Florida
Posts: 1,157
We accept that a holstered pistol will sweep over some people and precautions must be taken. Trigger guards are covered and some people clear that entire part of their body that they're carrying on so nothing can interfere.

My issue isn't that the guns were pointing at the people, but that every single one was blatantly arranged to do so with not a single concession towards at least respecting any of the safety rules. A police department doesn't have access to trigger locks or chamber flags? They don't know how to remove a magazine and lock a slide back?

I know, when I'm at the range, if I set my gun down facing a target that I implicitly want to fill with holes, I still am supposed to put the safety on, remove the magazine, and open the bolt. That is at a scenario where I WANT the gun to go off in that direction, yet we still set it like that so others around us can confirm it's safe when not being handled.

Like I said, I am much more upset at the principle that not a single precaution seems to have been taken for this event. We don't even know if the guns have been cleared prior to coming off the street. We assume they are, but we don't know that.
dakota.potts is offline  
Old August 20, 2013, 01:44 PM   #15
zxcvbob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2007
Location: S.E. Minnesota
Posts: 4,185
The room was full of reporters? Maybe they were intentionally arranged that way to make the guns look more dangerous.
__________________
"The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun"
zxcvbob is online now  
Old August 20, 2013, 01:48 PM   #16
dakota.potts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 25, 2013
Location: Saint Augustine, Florida
Posts: 1,157
I am thinking that is the case. Maybe they hoped the emotional appeal of looking into the barrels of guns would help them write more "persuasive" articles.
dakota.potts is offline  
Old August 22, 2013, 01:58 PM   #17
SgtLumpy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2013
Posts: 779
Quote:
The room was full of reporters? Maybe they were intentionally arranged that way to make the guns look more dangerous.
Of course they were. A high profile dog-and-pony show like Bloom's anti-gun campaign is surely micro analyzed by dozens of ad experts, politico consultants, image experts. "If we point the dangerous end at the reporters, it will have a bigger impact".

The Bloom campaign is surely not the least bit interested in demonstrating safe gun handling ie empty chamber flags and so forth.


Sgt Lumpy
SgtLumpy is offline  
Old August 23, 2013, 07:42 AM   #18
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,000
Something makes me think that it was NOT an accident, but a very purposeful subliminal message.

By having all of those firearms pointing at the members of the audience, it helps reinforce the discomfort many of them already have about firearms.



Whoops. I see a number of other people have already had that thought.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old August 23, 2013, 07:51 AM   #19
Skans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 7,838
This is a bunch of nothing. No one was touching any of those guns - they were all lying on tables; like at a gun show. No one was pointing muzzles at reporters.

A loaded gun, by itself sitting on a table, is about as dangerous as a car parked in a garage.
Skans is offline  
Old August 23, 2013, 07:56 AM   #20
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,000
You know that, I know that, but the anti-gunners don't want anyone to think that.

They've spent decades villifying the gun as a threat with its own personality, it's own sinister will, and its own ability to act.

They're psychologically, emotionally, and financially invested in the lie that guns are the real problem, not people and their actions.

If we just get rid of those evil guns, we'll be living in a utopian harmony in a matter of minutes.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old August 23, 2013, 08:18 AM   #21
Skans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 7,838
Quote:
You know that, I know that.......
And, now they know that. Hundreds of guns laying on tables with their muzzles pointed in their direction, and not one fatality, injury or even a near miss. Yes, they know that a gun, by itself, is not dangerous at all - if they want to keep living in some delusional fantasy world where guns go "BLAM" all by themselves, that's just a matter of choice.
Skans is offline  
Old August 23, 2013, 08:32 AM   #22
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
But they do not think guns go BLAM!! all by themselves (except for the latest Mothers Against group, that is pressuring Starbucks with the specter of accidental discharges).

They do seem to think that guns, as talismans, create urges by their owners to use them in improper ways.
MLeake is offline  
Old August 23, 2013, 08:41 AM   #23
Skans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 7,838
Quote:
But they do not think guns go BLAM!! all by themselves
Oh, plenty of them do believe this - seems crazy, but its true.

Quote:
They do seem to think that guns, as talismans, create urges by their owners to use them in improper ways.
I do agree that there is a large group of antis that subscribe to this view.
Skans is offline  
Old August 23, 2013, 10:19 AM   #24
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,000
"But they do not think guns go BLAM!! all by themselves..."

They don't?

Really?

Are you sure?

I have it on the BEST authority from a friend of mine (a pediatrician) that a gun in the house will, of its own accord, slaughter everyone in the household.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old August 23, 2013, 10:57 AM   #25
SgtLumpy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2013
Posts: 779
Quote:
A loaded gun, by itself sitting on a table, is about as dangerous as a car parked in a garage.
I heard Bloomberg saying that just the other day.


Sgt Lumpy
SgtLumpy is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11688 seconds with 7 queries