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Old August 18, 2013, 04:38 PM   #26
gaseousclay
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Ted Nugent

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Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post

And I fail to see what good it does to bring up things from then, as if they were fully relevant today. Unless, of course, they are still fully relevant today....Not everything is, you know.
.
I think they're relevant because it speaks to his character. This is why, even underneath all the hyperbole, I can't take him seriously. It just boggles my mind that a pro-2a advocate intentionally dodged the draft but somehow supports our troops now. Makes me think he's a cowardly snake. The poaching stuff makes him look even worse. If it were a liberal I'm sure his background would be relevant and used against him
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Old August 18, 2013, 04:49 PM   #27
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He may have dodged the draft, even Ali but funny how everyone is quick to point that out when the 20 or so posters who said that probably only one or two even went to the Service.
That reminds me of that scripture "An eye of a needle".
But it's very easy to condem others when you're so perfect.
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Old August 18, 2013, 05:07 PM   #28
gaseousclay
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Ted Nugent

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Originally Posted by BuckRub View Post
He may have dodged the draft, even Ali but funny how everyone is quick to point that out when the 20 or so posters who said that probably only one or two even went to the Service.
That reminds me of that scripture "An eye of a needle".
But it's very easy to condem others when you're so perfect.
the draft was eliminated by the time I was of age, so it's completely voluntary. I chose to go to college instead. People are railing against Ted because he went out of his way to avoid military service during a draft. You'd think that a guy who knows how to use a gun would do so in defense of his own country.
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Old August 18, 2013, 05:29 PM   #29
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gaseousclay, did Bill Clinton's use of educational deferments to avoid the draft cause you similar concerns?

Meanwhile, I am not a fan of draft dodgers, but I also do not think Viet Nam was comparable to WWII. Whether we should have backed French colonialism (aka fought dominoes), or whether we should have honored promises made to VietNamese freedom fighters for theirassistance vs the Japanese in WWII would be an interesting discussion, but we probably can't have that one on TFL.
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Old August 18, 2013, 05:31 PM   #30
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The Viet Nam war was a very complex issue. If you weren't there you shouldn't be so quick to judge.
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Old August 18, 2013, 06:29 PM   #31
gaseousclay
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Ted Nugent

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Originally Posted by MLeake View Post
gaseousclay, did Bill Clinton's use of educational deferments to avoid the draft cause you similar concerns?
Clinton's educational deferments do concern me, but I think you're conflating the issue. Ted purposely presented himself in such a way to weasel his way out of military service. But comparing the actions of Clinton to Nugent is going a little far IMO. Clinton wasn't the only one to make educational deferments during a time of war and he won't be the last.

I guess I don't understand how anyone can look Ted Nugent in the face and not wanna puke. He'll fight for your 2a rights but he won't fight in a war like every other red blooded American before him? He's a hypocrite.
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Old August 18, 2013, 06:49 PM   #32
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I like Ted, not my first pic, definitely not my last to rep our 2nd amendment. But it takes all kinds, if he pulls 10 people into a great firearms community, fantastic. I'd guess he's pulled more than 10, and don't think that he has pushed many away.
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Old August 18, 2013, 06:50 PM   #33
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I'd rather hang out with Ted than 85% of the rest of the gun aficionados.
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Old August 18, 2013, 07:02 PM   #34
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make them hear your voice

I wish every gun owner had his passion and energy and was as out spoken and politically active for our rights as he is
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Old August 18, 2013, 08:23 PM   #35
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Redrik--Why is he not a good role model ? He is a rocker that preaches against drugs, alcohol and tobacco use and is for freedom.

I think your question has been answered
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Old August 18, 2013, 08:34 PM   #36
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Ted Nugent

He talks a big game but doesn't back it up. He promised to be dead or in jail by now, but yet there he is. People that act big, but play small, do not have my respect. There is no substance to what he says. No surprise he poaches and draft dodges

Last edited by Vanya; August 19, 2013 at 07:15 PM. Reason: name-calling.
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Old August 18, 2013, 09:19 PM   #37
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So what you are saying is he is crazy? That is what a whole lot of people say about him.
So maybe he didn't 'dodge the draft' at all.
Maybe he really was crazy. And still is.
He is nutty, that is for sure.
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Old August 18, 2013, 11:30 PM   #38
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I saw Ted last month at the Belly Up in Aspen which seats about 200 people so I was 5 feet away. It was awesome.

Ted bellowed out that he had a permit for the 1st Amendment "right here" and whipped out his middle finger for the audience.

He's legitimately passionate and a smart guy. He's not going to convince a lot of fence-sitters but he certainly irritates the anti-gunners and anti-hunters, which is just fine with me.

As for the poaching convictions - I educated myself on the specifics. It seems more sloppy hunting and not paying close attention to regs than what we think of as poaching (he wasn't blasting elk calves in the middle of the night).

None of us are angels.
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Old August 19, 2013, 07:56 AM   #39
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I'm a big Ted Nugent fan. More so for his active roll in the NRA and gun rights causes (as well as his anti-drug/alcohol stance and his support of Veterans) than for his music. But, there was a time I was really into Ted's music as well - it's just that "Wang-Dang, Sweet ********" resonated more with me with I was in my teens.

I like the way Ted doesn't try to be politically correct; doesn't try to morph into "Joe Average" simply to attract non-gun folks to his beliefs. I support Ted in his efforts to advocate for gun owners and the 2nd Amendment. He does it "his way" and I applaud him for that. I hope he stays on the bleeding edge doing what he feels is right in his heart, and not compromise his views and beliefs just to satisfy the mainstream.

Rock on, Ted.
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Old August 19, 2013, 10:51 AM   #40
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I see Ted the same as I see Hanoi Jane. They wear the colors that the folks they're with at the time want to see. Ted is convicted poacher and a self proclaimrd draft dodger. He is just a self-serving narcissist. In his hunting shows, his ethics are those of a shooter, not a hunter/sportsman. Just because he preaches the second amendment, doesn't make him a hero. There are thousands of better role models coming home every day from sandboxes across the oceans than "uncle Ted"could ever hope to be. I think it's hideious that he tries to identify himself with them.
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Old August 19, 2013, 11:27 AM   #41
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The flipside is that I know guys who have flown Ted and his family around. By all accounts, he is a very polite and friendly person, whose son is well-mannered and courteous.

Bear in mind that there is showmanship on one level, and then there is how a person behaves when the crowds are not watching or the camera is not rolling.
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Old August 19, 2013, 11:51 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP
Being extreme, and "in your face" may not be he best strategy, but it has been working for quite some time for the other side.

Personally, I find it rather refreshing. Calm, dispassionate logic in the court of public opinion is a losing tactic too often these days, even if it is the morally right choice. A degree of fighting fire with fire is needed, I think. It's certainly emotionally satisfying.

Ted's no saint. He doesn't represent me...
This is where I land as well. Although I have heard his name before, I have only seen him in his recent appearance on the Pierce Morgan program (a venue in which he did well).

This fellow I barely know does not represent me, but that does not keep him from being an advocate. Part of being an advocate can involve addressing emotional components of an issue and addressing them in a way that involves showmanship.

Calm and dispassionate reasoning is very persuasive amongst some people. However, it is not the only means of persuasion, and if we are too insistent on advocacy measuring up to a standard that most will not find persuasive, we should not bother as a political matter. Winning public opinion involves a tolerance of co-belligerents with whom one may have differences.

Last edited by zukiphile; August 19, 2013 at 11:57 AM.
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Old August 19, 2013, 12:34 PM   #43
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Regarding Nugent and poaching - you really need to read the accounts of what happened. It's not like Ted is out there at night picking off deer with a search light and a silenced rifle. That's real poaching. Nugent got caught on technical misdemeanor violations of hunting laws, and if he was Joe Buckwheat, it would amount to a bunch of nothing.

When I hear gun folks slamming our own based on Huffington Post type journalism, it makes me wonder....
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Old August 19, 2013, 05:36 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP
Being extreme, and "in your face" may not be he best strategy, but it has been working for quite some time for the other side.
Who are we talking about? Sarah Brady? Barbara Streisand? I don't like either one. I don't like them as people and I don't like their politics. But I don't see their personal behavior as a problem.

But anyone who would wear urine soaked and feces caked clothes for days in a row? This isn't anybody we want speaking for us.

He's a deliberately abrasive individual who has a highly checkered past.

Someone posted that they saw the Nuge in a concert:

Quote:
Ted bellowed out that he had a permit for the 1st Amendment "right here" and whipped out his middle finger for the audience.
Seriously? Posters on this thread think that behavior is commendable? That's just low class. Period.
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Old August 19, 2013, 05:41 PM   #45
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Quote:
It's not like Ted is out there at night picking off deer with a search light and a silenced rifle. That's real poaching
No, poaching encompasses much more than what you're describing.

And, regardless, it's still the law.
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Old August 19, 2013, 06:02 PM   #46
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I used to be a fan of his until recently . I loved his TV show. I even brought his book" kill it and grill it". I am a NRA member, hunter and shooter. I ignored when he was caught illegally hunting last year. But the comments he made after the George Zimmerman verdict was the final straw, how you feel about the case is a matter of personal opinion, but to say the racist things he commented about the black community and Martin's grieving parents was totally uncalled for. He should leave the political activist stuff alone. He also should step down from the NRA board.

Last edited by Vanya; August 19, 2013 at 07:18 PM. Reason: name-calling.
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Old August 19, 2013, 06:17 PM   #47
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I've actually met Ted Nugent. I like that he speaks his mind and doesn't pussyfoot around an issue. You can be sure that he is telling you exactly what he thinks and doesn't really care if that offends you.
In this day and age, that is an admirable quality.

Take him for what he is, an entertainer. No different than the celebrities that disagree with us politically.
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Old August 19, 2013, 07:12 PM   #48
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I feel like I finally need to chime in...

Quote:
Originally Posted by arch308
I like Uncle Ted. I don't agree with all his methods but then I don't agree totally with anybody. I love his total absence of political correctness. He is truly committed to the defense of the second amendment and uses his venues to the best of his abilities. Yeah, he's sometimes a half bubble off plumb but he is on our side and does a lot of unpaid work for the cause.
We've all done things we aren't proud of and I won't hold 40 year old mistakes against him.
Italics & color added by Bumblebug. Thank you arch308, I couldn't have said it better myself. I for one am sick of the political-correctness & find Ted refreshing and I hope all of us have a chance to be judged by who we have become in our senior life instead of who we were in our fledgling youth.

Rock-On Ted...
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Old August 19, 2013, 07:36 PM   #49
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I've edited several posts. There will be no more name-calling or personal attacks against Mr. Nugent or anyone else. Failure to heed this warning will have consequences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zukiphile
Calm and dispassionate reasoning is very persuasive amongst some people. However, it is not the only means of persuasion, and if we are too insistent on advocacy measuring up to a standard that most will not find persuasive, we should not bother as a political matter. Winning public opinion involves a tolerance of co-belligerents with whom one may have differences.
I think Mr. Nugent does our cause more harm than good; he's preaching (if one can call it that ) to the choir, and there's nothing in his presentation that is likely to change the mind of anyone who is on the fence about, much less opposed to, gun rights. Yes, his "performances" around gun rights are calculated to appeal to emotion -- but he appeals to the emotions of people who already support gun rights, and who like the idea of giving the finger (metaphorically or otherwise) to authority.
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Old August 20, 2013, 08:03 AM   #50
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Quote:
.....but he appeals to the emotions of people who already support gun rights, and who like the idea of giving the finger (metaphorically or otherwise) to authority
This is true, but keeping our pro 2nd Amendment friends and gun owners excited about preserving their gun rights it is just as important as those people who reach out to non-gun people to hopefully recruit a few to our side every now and then. We can't just have one type of person who's only goal is to recruit non-gun folks to our side.

Ted Nugent isn't for everyone. He doesn't represent everyone, heck, he probably doesn't actually represent anyone. He is, and has always been, a loose cannon who happens to share a passionate interest in guns, shooting and hunting. I don't have to be like Ted, or act like him just to be glad we have him on our side. And, although I recognize that he is not the be-all-end-all spokesman for preserving our 2nd Amendment rights, I think he generally contributes positively and is a small but important piece in the Big Picture.

FWIW, I did a very quick count of favorable vs. unfavorable comments (trying not to double up where people posted more than once) concerning Ted Nugent, and the favorable comments are running just under 2 to 1 unfavorable. Like him or hate him, I feel Ted Nugent resonates with a large number of people who like shooting and support the 2nd Amendment. Do we really need to force everyone to like only intellectuals in suits and ties who speak softly and eloquently?

Last edited by Skans; August 20, 2013 at 08:32 AM.
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