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Old August 15, 2013, 03:21 PM   #1
Beretta686
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Frangible SBR 5.56 loads?

I've taken a liking to keeping my 10.5 inch SBR AR-15 in the truck when rolling around the ranch; as it fits perfectly between the front seat and center console, where it's easy to get to, yet out of sight.

Mostly it's been a coyote/pig gun, but with the massive increase in oil/gas drilling in my area, I've lately caught several people "accidentally" on my place and seeing what's in my barn.

As I'm a fan of deescalation and letting cops do cop work, I've just asked them to leave and written down their plate numbers without ever overtly producing a weapon to the situation, but I'd rather be ready.

Right now I'm running XM855 62-gr rounds through it with no problems. But is there a frangible load anyone would recommend for "social use" that will reliably fragment?

I'd prefer to keep it a 62gr, so my plinking and social ammo are the same zero, but I'm open to lighter rounds.
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Old August 16, 2013, 02:26 PM   #2
Willie Lowman
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This isn't really a NFA question...

Frangible ammo is not a good defensive round.

If you are looking for people stoppers to put in that rifle there are selections from all the major manufacturers. Hornady TAP, Winchester Ranger, Speer Gold Dots.
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Old August 16, 2013, 06:21 PM   #3
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Most frangible ammo won't fragment reliably in soft tissue. Some of the best self-defense loads for .223 are ballistic-tipped hollow points like the V-Max loads; they'll fragment violently in soft tissue but will still penetrate far enough in most situations. I use 50 gr. V-Max loads to minimize penetration through walls but still offer sufficient penetration in most situations. If I were running an SBR or I was worried about under-penetration, I might use 55 gr. or a little heavier. Also, keep in mind that loads like TAP are designed to penetrate through barriers like car glass before expanding in soft tissue, so you might get more penetration through walls than you bargained for.
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Old August 17, 2013, 08:45 AM   #4
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Frangible ammo is designed for ricochet prevention when shooting steel targets.

Applying high school physics to the matter will quickly lead to the realization that anything that can penetrate enough to be an effective defensive round will also penetrate other things.

I don't understand what you mean by "social use" ammunition? The only time a weapon should be produced is when not doing so would lead to death or bodily harm.

I personally load my HD AR with 5.56 NATO 62 grain HPBT, I haven't been able to find any of it for a long time, some of it is marked MK318 MOD-0.
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Old August 17, 2013, 09:22 AM   #5
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I bought 500 off of a good friend, this is surplus ammo. It does great. Kind of cool to shoot steel and see it disintegrate completely.
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Old August 18, 2013, 06:45 PM   #6
Beretta686
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Perhaps "frangible" was the wrong term and I should of used "expanding" instead.

Essentially what I'm asking is: what's the best self-defense load to use in a 10.5 inch 5.56 rifle, at ranges from 0-50 meters?

I know that's not an explicitly NFA question, but I figure the people who use NFA goodies would better understand 5.56 ballistics from a short-barrel, than other people who aren't familiar with SBRs.

Quote:
I don't understand what you mean by "social use" ammunition? The only time a weapon should be produced is when not doing so would lead to death or bodily harm.
By "social use" I mean self-defense. I've seen what bullets due to people in the real world and have been through a thousand escalation-of-force briefings in the military, so I'm probably the last person who's going to want to produce a weapon, much less use it. But if I'm going to, I want to have it loaded with the best possible rounds.
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Old August 18, 2013, 07:04 PM   #7
Willie Lowman
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There is no such thing as a "best" round except what works best in your rifle. A quick google found threads on other forums on this topic. Federal Fusion and Barnes TSX apparently expand very reliably in jugs of water.

That said, I trust mine with Nosler 64 grain bonded solid base. A good friend of mine loads his 10.5" Noveske with TAP 75 grain. At 0 to 50 yards all the good mid-weight to heavy 5.56 hunting/defensive rounds should preform as advertised from a 10 inch barrel.
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Old August 18, 2013, 08:48 PM   #8
Beretta686
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Great. Thanks for the leads on ammo. I've never fed mine anything but FMJs and MX855, yet I've also never had a hiccup, even with Wolf and other crappy rounds. So hopefully those will work in mine.
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Old September 5, 2013, 03:22 PM   #9
HopeandChange
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Quote:
Perhaps "frangible" was the wrong term and I should of used "expanding" instead.

Essentially what I'm asking is: what's the best self-defense load to use in a 10.5 inch 5.56 rifle, at ranges from 0-50 meters?

I'm a fan of 77 gr SMKs or Nosler Custom Competitions for short barrel frag.

SMK:

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Old September 7, 2013, 10:32 AM   #10
Willie Lowman
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What were those fragments recovered from? Water jug? Dead critter?

You can't just show us bullet fragments, we need penetration depths, barrel lengths and all the other little tid-bits. Inquiring minds, you know.
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Old September 9, 2013, 11:52 AM   #11
HopeandChange
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Oops.. yeah.. sorry... that was a water jug test. I know there's a limit on what you can learn from a water jug test, but it gets you an idea.

This penetrated about 15" and thumped, but didn't penetrate, the phone book back stop I had set up.

I've read that Doc Roberts thought the 77 penetrated a little too well. It's just impressive at the fragging along with the deep penetration.
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Old September 10, 2013, 02:05 PM   #12
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Here's another using the same back yard methodology...

Nosler Custom Competition 77 on the left, and that 75 gr PRVI bulk bullet from Wideners on the right.

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Old September 10, 2013, 02:14 PM   #13
Willie Lowman
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Looks like the jacket on the Privi stayed with the core right till the end.
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Old September 10, 2013, 02:21 PM   #14
HopeandChange
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Yeah... it openned up like a hollowpoint. Kinda cool. I sold all my 55 gr XM193 and made the PRVI my bulk end of the world stash round.

Makes for a closer trajectory to the 77 SMKs and Noslers. Fits like a glove.
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