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Old August 16, 2013, 03:10 PM   #1
Kimio
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.22LR bolt action ideal trainer rifle?

I was at my local LGS the other day, and was browsing around when I overheard two other customers talking about good guns to use as training tools.

One of them had said that a bolt action .22LR is the ideal tool to use in regards to training. While I understand the logic behind using a firearm chambered in .22lr for training, I wasn't completely sure why he would specify a particular type of action.

The only thing I can think of is that bolt actions typically are more accurate than semi auto's, therefore, it may yield better results to show what the shooter may or may not be doing wrong while have the least chance of causing them to develop a flinch.

Not to mention they typically are very affordable to buy and shoot.

Anyone have some thoughts on this?
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Old August 16, 2013, 03:18 PM   #2
kimbershot
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training for what? target practice, hunting, just plain plinking? candidly, semis tend to burn a lot of ammo--you get carried away. bolts--slow things down. a good bolt costs more than a ruger 10/22.

my preference would be for a bolt and tops for me--cz 452 varmint/american. cz trainers also pretty cool, but barrel is just to long for my liking.
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Old August 16, 2013, 03:24 PM   #3
ripnbst
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.22LR bolt action ideal trainer rifle?

Yep, CZ American or trainer.

I really like the Savage .22 as well.
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Old August 16, 2013, 04:05 PM   #4
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I have a Winchester model 67 that I learned on when I was a boy. It taught me fundamentals. It is very accurate and around $200 used. Mine is a pre serial number model, best guess is it is a 1938. There are many that are great to train on.
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Old August 16, 2013, 04:19 PM   #5
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Good choice !!!

Quote:
a good bolt costs more than a ruger 10/22.
It's all relative and debatable. .....

We have three trainers that are used for Hunter Safety. The state requires them to be Bolt action, single-shot. Two are youth models and one is full size. Two are Marlins and one is a Savage and all cost less than a new standard 10/22. Strictly open sights. I believe that the Boy Scouts and other conservation groups, have the same requirements. Don't get me wrong, it would be great is a conservation group cold provide a CZ but again, it would have to meet the single shot requirement. ......

Be Safe !!!
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Old August 16, 2013, 04:36 PM   #6
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Learning to shoot with a bolt action is like learning to drive with a manual transmission. It makes you understand the machinery better, the mechanics and the motions involved, eliminates the temptation to "put the petal to the metal". In the case of younger shooters I prefer an action with a regular safety. it gets them in the habit of applying it everytime they load or hear "Cease Fire!"
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Old August 16, 2013, 04:46 PM   #7
Levant
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I agree completely that a bolt-action .22 is the perfect trainer. It has all the components to teach the rules of gun safety - trigger, barrel, safety, chamber, etc.

Start out by dropping in a snap cap and practice the heck out of properly handling the gun and use a sight picture. It doesn't matter what the sight picture is, learn to use one. If you understand it, you can always learn a different picture later.

Move to real ammo, one shot at a time until good control is gained then load up. With a bolt there is no risk of surprise-induced multiple fire like in a semi-auto. This is where you can learn to keep the sight on the target, to breathe when pulling the trigger, and just build very good shooting skills and habits that will carry on forever.

Of course I think your second gun should be something like a 7mm Magnum.... Not.
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Old August 16, 2013, 04:50 PM   #8
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Bolt Action is the beter choiice.

I guess one has to ask themselves; What would I suggest or advise on a good starter trainer for any student? Give it some thought and in my "opinion" it would definitely be a bolt action with open sights. At first I would keep it simple and load one round at a time. My least favorite would be a semi-automatic. Keep in mind what our expectations are and a bolt action is the logical choice. .....

Be Safe !!!
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Old August 16, 2013, 05:31 PM   #9
BillM
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I'm going to assume that "trainer"="new shooter"

Bolt action, open sights, and detachable magazine (NOT tube) fed.

I might fudge on the open sights a bit and start a new shooter with
a scope---nothing builds enthusiasm like immediate hits--but an open
sight gun will also be used in that first session.

Start them out with the mag out--or just load one in it and feed from the
magazine. After they get the basics down, load it up.

Savage makes some fine examples that won't break the bank, I have a few.
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Old August 16, 2013, 07:09 PM   #10
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Couldn't agree more! My first gun was a remington 581. Anytime i go to the range with a new shooter (or even those who claim to have experience, but don't have their own gun) they get the good ol 581 with open sights.

A good friend of mine came over one day while I was cleaning my 700, said he had never shot a gun a wanted to learn, so we went to the range. you should have seen the disappointment on his face when I handed him the 581.
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Old August 16, 2013, 07:32 PM   #11
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I have a Marlin 981T, pre cursor to the xt22 I think. I teach the kids with it and it may be my favorite gun. Very accurate and was less than $200.
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Old August 16, 2013, 10:33 PM   #12
Bezoar
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why is it the ideal tool? hmmm lets see.

safety for starters. basic simplist reason. you know a bolt action is safe, because the bolt is OPEN.
cant tell that from a semi auto.
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Old August 17, 2013, 05:09 AM   #13
Jimro
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Single shot firearms are perfect for training fundamental marksmanship because there is no option for a quick follow up shot.

Bolt action repeaters are second best, either tube or mag fed.

Lever and Pump action 22's are third best. But are great tools for someone who hunts a lot of waterfowl/upland bird to keep muscle memory going or someone who uses a lever rifle for hunting big game.

Semi auto 22's are least desireable in initial training, but most desireable in training as a proxy for a sport requireing a semi auto rifle (such as a dedicated 22lr upper for your AR-15 service rifle to shoot High Power).

Ask yourself what your training goals are, then pick the best tool you have available to accomplish that goal.

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Old August 17, 2013, 10:23 AM   #14
g.willikers
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Like Kimbershot asked, who and what is the training for?
Someone brand new to shooting?
Long range practice for an accomplished shooter, who only has 100 yard range available?
3 Gun competition practice?
Rimfire Silhouette matches?
Something else?
Lots of differences, there.
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Old August 17, 2013, 01:05 PM   #15
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My personal opinion is in line with most of the other members here: bolt action .22 LR. The benefits are decent to good accuracy, cheap ammunition, no real recoil, simplicity, (generally) light weight, and availability of youth stocks (if needed).

The ideal trainer is something you can pick up for $35 - like the plethora of old Savage/Stevens/Springfield rifles scattered around the country.
If you can learn to deal with the horrible triggers and poorly designed sights on those rifles, you will only improve by moving up to something more refined.
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Old August 17, 2013, 06:07 PM   #16
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Quote:
Single shot firearms are perfect for training fundamental marksmanship because there is no option for a quick follow up shot.
+1 on that. No chance for an accidental double-tap.
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Old August 17, 2013, 07:20 PM   #17
Kimio
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It was a little hard to hear them, but yes, I think they were talking about ideal firearms especially rifles to introduce their kids and possibly their wives to shooting.

I'll admit when I was new, I wanted to try large calibers, but as I've learned more I agree wholeheartedly with the whole starting with a .22lr to learn how to shoot.

I've run into several people who would say that it's a waste of time since you would have to learn how to handle the recoil and sights of a new rifle all over again and that it was better to just start with what they would be using.

I just smiled and nodded at these types of folks, since further debate would be useless unfortunately.
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Old August 18, 2013, 08:40 PM   #18
cookie5
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Nothing better than a 22 to lean on and to continue shooting.
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Old August 21, 2013, 04:07 PM   #19
johnwilliamson062
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I have a Marlin 981TS. THe receiver is beginning to wear where the bolt handle rides, but other wise it has been perfect and inexpensive as mentioned above.
Bolt action also helps you slow down and think about each shot before you take it. It only helps because you can still shoot every few seconds if you want.
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Old September 1, 2013, 08:16 AM   #20
geetarman
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I have the CZ 452 Trainer and took it to the range Friday. The only work on the rifle has been a trigger job.

Here is what I shot at 50 yards with Lapua Center X ammo.

10 shots.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 559752_191057071067129_8806435_n[1].jpg (47.3 KB, 38 views)
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Old September 6, 2013, 01:35 AM   #21
bamaranger
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rate of fire

If not heavily coached, its been my experience that a kid will burn through .22 ammo with a semi/pup/lever faster than you can buy it. Yank the trigger enough times and you will eventually hit your target.

The Bolt slows them down and makes them earn (and hopefully with your coaching) understand what is required for a hit.

The reward is a hit, not noise.
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Old September 6, 2013, 01:50 AM   #22
natman
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^^^^This. Big time, especially with semiautos.

Teach them to hit first, then teach them to hit fast.

It's also easier to load a bolt action one round at a time for training.

Last edited by natman; September 6, 2013 at 02:05 AM.
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Old September 6, 2013, 02:08 AM   #23
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The distinction was made earlier about using a single shot vs a magazine fed rifle. I think the biggest reason the single shot has been endorsed by the BSA and others is the number of kids in a class (mine had 7-10, if I remember right). It's much easier to maintain a safe range when each shot has to be loaded individually.

That said, if someone is doing one on one work, then I think a mag fed 22 would be perfect.
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Old September 6, 2013, 04:25 PM   #24
johnwilliamson062
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I went with the 891TS over other options because it was a tube fed bolt. I think there might have been one other on the market. I really like the tube on it. of course, I have a 10/22 also, so if I want to waste ammo I always have the option.
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Old September 7, 2013, 07:59 AM   #25
priell3
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I learned to shoot way back in the '60s with my grandfather's single shot, bolt action .22 firing .22 shorts at cans and paper plates.

What better way to learn patience and to make every shot count?
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