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Old August 3, 2013, 07:22 PM   #1
bmadddd7
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Machining an 80% Lower (HELP)

Alright so I am looking into purchasing an 80% lower and have no machining experience and am looking for someone to machine it for me or at least do it with me so I can complete it. Does anyone have experience doing it in the new england area and would be willing to do this for me? I will pay to ship and pay for you to do it and then go pick it up. Please please please I need help!!
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Old August 3, 2013, 07:31 PM   #2
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I think you might run into some legal issues if you pay someone to mill it for you. Especially if they don't have a license to manufacture firearms. Once the receiver is milled then it is a firearm.

The point to 80% lowers is that the hobbyist finishes them in their own workshop to avoid having to do the transfer paperwork. If you send it off to be finished it will have to be serial numbered and transfer paper work done. Just buy a stripped lower and do the paperwork it will be cheaper in the long run.
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Old August 3, 2013, 07:36 PM   #3
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I live in the communist state of connecticut... I just was wondering if someone would even walk me through it just so I could do it.
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Old August 3, 2013, 07:38 PM   #4
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Yep. Completing that lower is manufacturing a firearm. That is legal, with no paperwork required, under federal law (as long as the result is not a machinegun or other NFA firearm) but with some states now banning "assault rifles" it might be illegal under state or local law.

Under federal law, note that if you manufacture a firearm for your own use, you must do all the work; you can't hire a gunsmith or a machinist to help you or to do it for you unless he has a manufacturer's FFL.

I have known several folks who bought those 80% receivers, both 1911 pistol frames and AR lowers, and only one was able to turn out a usable 1911 frame; the others either gave up or ruined the frame, or both.

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Old August 3, 2013, 07:41 PM   #5
bmadddd7
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Yeah I have heard it is not easy and I live in CT so I don't even think a licensed FFL with a mill would do that
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Old August 3, 2013, 08:26 PM   #6
reynolds357
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If you build a firearm on an 80% receiver, can you ever legally sell it?
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Old August 3, 2013, 10:56 PM   #7
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No you can't sell an completed 80% lower unless you have a manufacturers FFL. I'm not even sure if you can pass them on as an inheritance.
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Old August 5, 2013, 10:38 AM   #8
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Taylor, I am not interested in building one, but since you have knowledge on this subject I am picking your brain for a minute. If you have one, is it your burden to prove you built it or Law Enforcement burden to prove you did not build it.
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Old August 5, 2013, 03:17 PM   #9
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Reynolds, it is perfectly legal to build yourself a firearm as long as it doesn't fall into the SBR or Fullauto catagory. So why would the question of who built it ever come up? However, I do believe the burden of proof would lie with law enforcement to prove that you didn't build it.

Ares Armor is one of the suppliesr of 80% lowers and I took this from their FAQ page.

Quote:
80% FAQ
How the hell is this Legal?

Well its simple really. You are building the weapon yourself for your own personal use. This is legal under the Gun Control Act of 1968. This is on the ATF’s website under their FAQ page. You can see it here:http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/fire...echnology.html

We are not lawyers always do your own research!

Can I Build one as a gift to my wife or other family member?

No, If you build one and then give it to another person you are distributing it… This would be illegal.

Do I need to put serial numbers on the firearm that I make?

A licensed Manufacturer has an agreement with the government to put serial numbers on the weapons they make. You as a private individual who is making a firearm for personal use and not for sale of distribution have no agreement with the government to serialize your firearm.

It is a good idea to mark your weapon somehow so that should it ever be stolen you have a way to identify it and report its loss to your local law enforcement.

Please check your local and state law.

What if a Cop sees me with my unserialized gun?

What if a cop sees you eating a greasy burger. At the time this FAQ was written There is no law against eating greasy food (The greasy food analogy may change if good ol’ Michelle has her way) .The gun control act of 1968 does not require a private individual who is making a weapon for personal use and not for sale or distribution to serialize it. lookup your local and state laws.

Can I make an SBR / Full Auto / other…?

For the sake of simplicity we are going to answer this one with a simple NO.

You must follow all Federal, State and Local Law There is a process for you to own those sorts of weapons. We will not provide any instruction on this.

C’mon I really want a full auto can you help me out? I will pay extra.

You would not believe how many times we get asked this… the answer is ALWAYS NO. Please do not waste your or our time asking this question. We are not interested in participating in ANY illegal activity nor are interested in helping you participate in ANY illegal activity. Thank you.

Will you help me make a Suppressor / Silencer / can .

NO

I am a felon and am restricted from owning a firearm, may I come to build one using this process?

Sorry but no, you are restricted from owning a firearm… this would instantly stop you from being able to legally build one as well.

What is the difference between Anodized and Raw receivers?

Anodizing is a finish. If you want your lower to be black then go with the anodized if you want to do your own finish, go with raw.

How do I get an Unserialzed Barrel/upper/ other part to go with my receiver?

You buy one! The only part of most weapons that are normally serialized is the lower receiver / frame. You are making this from an 80% lower. You can openly buy all the other parts and have them shipped to your door.

If I get an anodized receiver what happens after I cut it?

After you cut it the inside portion that you cut will be raw. Many people will just leave it this way and put it together. This is up to you.

If I leave it raw will it rust?

The AR-15/AR-10 Lowers are aluminum and they will not rust. The 1911 should have a finish put on it after it is cut because it is Steel and will rust if left untreated.

What kind of finish should I use?

Duracoat / Cerakote are both good options. For those that are the “fancy” type Spray paint gets er done too.
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Old August 5, 2013, 08:25 PM   #10
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It is not illegal to make a Title I firearm for your own use. You can even make an NFA (Title II) firearm (other than a machinegun) for your own use, if you pay the tax and get approval.

It is illegal to make a firearm for sale of distribution unless you have a manufacturer's license. But it is NOT illegal to sell a firearm you made for your own use as long as you didn't make it with the intent of selling it.

How would BATFE show your intent? I am not going to get into all the "scenarios" but it is usually pretty easy.

Jim
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Old August 7, 2013, 04:57 PM   #11
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What if a machine shop set up a CNC mill to complete a 80% lower and rented you the machine and let you be the one to push the buttons and do what it took to complete it......kind of like those key cutting booth kiosks or those dog tag engraver machines....you put your 80% lower in push a button and out comes your completed lower....and for the time being you actually temporally own the machine until you sell it back to them so to speak. Would that be legal?

If it would that would be a hell of a business opportunity anyone want to invest with me.....lol
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Old August 8, 2013, 01:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Would that be legal?
It would be as legal as the Akins Accelerator was before BATFE said it wasn't. Or as legal as an unregistered "pre-81" DIAS. Or as legal as a coke bottle stuffed with Brillo with the end wrapped in duct tape being used as wall art.
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Old August 8, 2013, 02:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palmetto pride
you put your 80% lower in push a button and out comes your completed lower....and for the time being you actually temporally own the machine until you sell it back to them so to speak. Would that be legal?
Do you think that the ATF would rule that you pushing a button constituted 20% of the work on the completed receiver?
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Old August 8, 2013, 02:59 PM   #14
Brian Pfleuger
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This has been discussed in another thread.

There is at least speculation, if not fact, that the ATF would consider the programming of the CNC machine to be part of the work.
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Old August 8, 2013, 04:18 PM   #15
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Quote:
Do you think that the ATF would rule that you pushing a button constituted 20% of the work on the completed receiver?
I don't know thats why I asked.

Quote:
There is at least speculation, if not fact, that the ATF would consider the programming of the CNC machine to be part of the work.
No matter how you slice it....it will be a machine doing the actual work. What if the programing code was on a SD or flash drive that you simply had to plug into the CNC machine and it took over from there. I believe there is a strong argument to be made that it is or could be made legal. It would be no different than downloading a file to print a gun on a 3D printer which is at this time legal.
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Old August 8, 2013, 04:50 PM   #16
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80% AR Receiver = $79.99
Finished 7075 T6 AR Receiver = $89.99
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=357093488

There ain't any money in figuring out a way to rent machines to finish off 80% receivers. Don't forget, they still have to be coated after machining. Lower receivers are once again cheap as all get out....and probably getting cheaper.
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Old August 8, 2013, 08:02 PM   #17
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Finished 7075 T6 AR Receiver = $89.99
Plus the cost of the FFL and NICS check.
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Old August 9, 2013, 12:30 AM   #18
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BTW, the whole "80%" thing is a nonsense term, just like "assault weapon" that we made up to describe a product the ATF has ruled "not a firearm." Same as they would rule a soup can. That ruling was based on a certain amount of time, difficulty, and expense, and if a turn key CNC setup* comes along to greatly ease the process, the ATF will rule more restrictively. 20% or whatever percentage has nothing to do with it; it's at their discretion that the unfinished lowers are available without FFL

Since the ATF gets to 'write' their enforcement determinations, we have little to gain and much to lose if we do stuff to push the boundaries and blur their definitions. This isn't like law where precedent rules the day; any new director can order or be ordered to change their opinions. Rarely towards less restriction, or course (but sometimes)

*people always forget the enormous amount of prep work involved, which for something simple like finishing a lower, is really a waste of money and machine time since a manual mill is just about as fast, and much easier for a newb to run than a CNC (yes, you still have to run them)

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