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Old August 1, 2012, 09:10 AM   #1
Bartholomew Roberts
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Citizen Makes 165yd Shot With Revolver to Stop Murderer From Ambushing Cop

Here is a Youtube video of the citizen telling the story in his own words:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g1n8cmwhIY

And here is a local news story covering the press conference of the shooting (written): http://www.brownwoodnews.com/index.p...news&Itemid=58

The short version is that in a trailer park altercation over a neighbor's dogs, the criminal killed the owner of the dogs, the dogs and the owner's wife and then grabbed a rifle to set up an ambush for police. A local citizen saw the criminal attempting to ambush the responding police officer and made a 165 yard shot with a .357 Magnum 5" revolver which connected to the leg. The murderer turned to fire at the citizen (whose name I still don't know) and the officer was able to grab his rifle and take cover behind his vehicle and end the fight.

I thought there were a number of interesting aspects to the story:

1. It seems I read the argument that you will never need to take a shot over 25yds frequently; but it does occasionally pop up. That this shooter pulled it off with a pistol was even more impressive.

2. A great case of citizens and police working together to support each other, as well as a department that recognizes the benefit of this and welcomes it.

3. A lot of bravery on the part of the citizen to start a pistol vs. rifle fight from 165yds away when you have the pistol.

Last edited by Bartholomew Roberts; August 1, 2012 at 09:48 AM.
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Old August 1, 2012, 10:02 AM   #2
Rj1972
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I'd sure be interested to know how much a bullet (or that bullet) drops in 165 yards.
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Old August 1, 2012, 10:08 AM   #3
g.willikers
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According to this calculator, not all that much.
Something like 10 inches or so for a 125 grain bullet at 1400 f/s??
http://gundata.org/ballistic-calcula...FQgFnQodvzAAbg
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Old August 1, 2012, 10:09 AM   #4
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Hats off to the citizen.

And to the comments by Sheriff Grubbs.

Quote:
Sheriff Grubbs also noted that some may take this incident as an opportunity to promote gun control; however he felt it is an example of importance of the right to bear arms.

“Had this citizen not had a gun, this could have been a whole lot worse,” said Grubbs.
I use to shoot metallic silhouette up to 200 meters with my service revolver (a 4 in. Model 28 Smith, 150 grs LSWCs). It wasn't the drop that got me, it was the short sight radius.

The un named citizen made a great shot.
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Old August 1, 2012, 10:25 AM   #5
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Elmer Keith would have been proud.


Willie

.
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Old August 1, 2012, 10:39 AM   #6
Frank Ettin
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Well done, unnamed citizen.

And a fine illustration of the principle that you can't know ahead of time what you will need to be able to do to solve the problem.
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Old August 1, 2012, 10:49 AM   #7
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Superb shooting.

Ya gotta love Vic Stacy, risked his life, shot the perp 5 times.

“…I hit him again, and I put 3 more in’em.” Mr. Stacy said he is an “average working person…tryin to help an officer out.” [Newsroom Report]

Old school. God bless him.
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Old August 1, 2012, 10:55 AM   #8
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Incredible. Just amazing. The guy is definitely a hero!
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Old August 1, 2012, 11:38 AM   #9
HiBC
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A fine citizen stands up and says"No!"

And,you know,that guy already killed two people,the dogs,and was preparing to kill the LEO.Who knows what would have happened next.The bad guy may not have stopped then,so who knows how many lives the gentleman with the .357 saved.

One form of shooting I enjoy is just calling a shot on the next hill..."See the little pink rock left of that clump of sage?"

With the idea you cannot make the shot if you do not take the shot.

I hit some,miss some,and get real close a lot.

Don;t expect a hit every time,but try shooting at a reactive target at 150,200 yds.You might be surprised.
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Old August 1, 2012, 11:45 AM   #10
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Impressive shooting with a pistol.
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Old August 1, 2012, 12:29 PM   #11
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Long range pistol accuracy

I have a thread here somewhere that discusses this topic exactly. After writing it and discussing with you fellas I decided to focus on it at least one mag every range trip.

I can now put a whole mag from the Glock 27 on a human sized cardboard silouet at least 7/10. If I am shooting off hand we are talking no grouping at all but 70% of em hit the silouett. If I get some sort of support averages go up and groupings get tighter.

I have no idea how well I would preform if that piece of cardboard was moving around and had the potential to shoot back. I would at least have a fighting chance.

Props to this citizen who knows how many lives he saved!
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Old August 1, 2012, 12:50 PM   #12
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And that gentleman is why they have targets set up beyond 7 yards on every range I have ever been on. If you only shoot so called self defense distances and never stretch your abilities to improve your shooting skills then you are flat out wasting your time and your ammunition. Especially with the .357 magnum, it's been making killing shots at long distance for a lot of years.


Quote:
1935
Major Douglas Wesson

Antelope - 200 yards (2 shots)

Elk - 130 yards (1 shot)

Moose - 100 yards (1 shot)

Grizzly Bear - 135 yards (1 shot)
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/357magnum.htm
It's been my experience that if I am zeroed with my gun at 25 yards I am only 2" low at 100 and I hold my point of aim at the same place regardless if I am close or back a little ways. At 200 yards I change my hold from 6 o'clock on the bull to center hold on the bull of an 8" target and consistently group 4"-6" below the target with my 158 LSWC. (Don't ask about my group size ). On a silhouette target I hold in the middle of the head and drop all my shots in the upper torso so it wasn't that difficult a feat for this guy if he has been shooting long distances with his gun. Don't know who he was or what he does but I bet he is a handgun hunter.
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Old August 1, 2012, 01:56 PM   #13
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Nice shooting!

But sadly:
Quote:
Means was able to take cover behind his vehicle and returned fire with his assault rifle
Now they get their terminology right...
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Old August 1, 2012, 02:23 PM   #14
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That was a very good shot and all of us in the law enforcement community appreciate this citizen's willingness to take action.

When I was doing firearms training at the academy, I was frequently asked by trainees why they needed to shoot at 50 yards with a handgun when most police shootings happen at very close range. My response was,Yes, most shootings are at very close range,but not all of them are and we want you to be prepared for the one time that it is not so close. When you get home this weekend step off the distance across your local McDonald's parking lot." They usually showed up the following Monday and said, "Sir, I see what the instructor means about the reason for 50 yard shooting."
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Old August 1, 2012, 07:11 PM   #15
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"Older" gentleman as well.

I rather think Brother Vic had fired that revolver a few times before this episode.

He had to do something and had to do it quick. Yessir, he did.
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Old August 1, 2012, 07:33 PM   #16
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M9 at Range

I had an opportunity to observe US Army soldiers practice break contact drills. They were using M-4 carbines and M9 pistols shooting at pop up silhouette targets at increasing ranges (from near Zero to 300 yards). The soldiers used bound and cover to fight their way out of reach of the "Enemy".
Their instructor would make them switch to the pistol at times. I think the point was that if your primary weapon is out of ammo or malfunctioning, if you still have a pistol, you are still armed. Some pistol hits were made at even the longest ranges.
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Old August 1, 2012, 08:45 PM   #17
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The .357 mag is the one revolver I would consider carrying, . . . and this story is the reason.

Of all the standard wheel gun calibers out there, . . . I have always had good results with this one.

It looks like our citizen / hero liked it too, . . . thank you and a job well done to him.

May God bless,
Dwight
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Old August 1, 2012, 09:43 PM   #18
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Yep, good shooting....
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Old August 1, 2012, 10:28 PM   #19
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well done! another brave Armed law biding citizen risking his life for others
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Old August 1, 2012, 10:30 PM   #20
Daggitt
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Reminds me of the scene from Lonesome Dove where Gus shoots the Outlaw from long distance. What a grand pistol shot, I'd have loved to seen that.
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Old August 1, 2012, 10:48 PM   #21
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Vic Stacy hopes to do saddlry some day. I hope he makes holsters. I will order one or six.

I am still a bit leary on the distance estimate, maybe the hits too. I would like to know more. I would not be surprised if he was off by 50% or more on the estimates. I have seen hunters do it. I don't see any confirmation yet. That would still be outstanding shooting, even if the first shot was square in the tree!
http://www.brownwoodtx.com/news/loca...9bb2963f4.html
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Old August 1, 2012, 11:31 PM   #22
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Doubt The Range??

At last Falls Sniper Class our Instructors were still down range after sending the students back to clean weapons. The Chief Instructor pulled out his Wilson Combat Colt Commander, took careful aim off hand, and made a first round hit on a Full Size Steel Silhouette at 200 yards. He then followed up with 2 more hits his next 2 shots.
That was not with a Flat Shooting 357 Magnum, it was with a 45 acp Commander with open sights. LUCK ?? Three out of Three Shots, I think not.

I set up his 7.5" 44 Magnum Super RedHawk Hog Gun. Which is an older Wilson Combat Super RedHawk with Magnaporting. It has a 30mm UltraDot sight. I will guarantee he can shoot it more accurately at 200 yards than he can the 45acp Commander.

If you shoot a handgun a lot, have steady hands and good eye sight. You can make hits at long range with a handgun.

Bob
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Old August 1, 2012, 11:32 PM   #23
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Interesting to note that according to one source, Mr. Stacy reports he did not sleep at all the night after the shooting.

Sounds like he did a good job with his handgun work. I hope we get some details on precisely how it played out in terms of his hits after the autopsy.

I believe DNS's comment had to do solely with the fact that the 165 yard range figure was quoted off the top of the Mr. Stacy's head and therefore not really a precise figure. People are notoriously poor at estimating range.

I'm quite certain that he's not indicating that it's impossible to make hits at 165 yards with a handgun for the simple reason that I've seen him make hits on a human-sized steel silhouette at 300 yards using a handgun on at least one occasion.
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Old August 2, 2012, 01:52 AM   #24
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Quote:
Doubt The Range??
Absolutely, but not firearm or shooter capability. I made no such comments on firearm or capability.

Given that Stacy's story is morphing with time, I will continue to doubt his 'facts' until verified. You get the impression from the video that the first shot hit the guy in the leg and then put 4 more shots in the guy and he could actually see the officer hit the guy twice with 2 shots, which is actually good eye sight at 165 yards. In fact, he said he realized he needed to do something and so he "jumped in there and put that first shot in him..." Funny how the hero left out part of the story less than wonderful. Happens all the time. It may not be intentional at all, or maybe he isn't happy with it. Doesn't matter why, but then we find out that he actually shot a tree with his first shot. (see my link above)

When stories morph, regardless of the intent of the story teller, that usually means that there is some ambiguity about the details. Whatever the reason, there are some problems with the source.

In shooting, golf, and real estate, I have seen where people grossly misestimate distances. Getting the distance wrong by a significant amount of 20% or more isn't uncommon at all. At my range, I have had folks confused 35, 50, and 100 yard targets as 50, 100, and 200 yard targets. Part of the reason for hunters and golfers getting laser range finders is because so many plainly suck or are inconsistent in their abilities to make accurate distance estimates. Countless vehicle accidents are based on incorrect distance estimation, especially relative to speed. "I thought I had enough room {distance} to stop." isn't an uncommon statement.

Try this fun little test with your friends. Ask them how long a football field is. We all know, right? It has the numbers right there! Then ask them how wide it is. If they haven't played or refereed football, they likely will get every answer wrong. They think they know one measurement and will estimate the rest, only they don't know the first measurement. Now ask for the diagonal. If they know geometry, they will work the math in their head if they can based on their known but likely incorrect information. If they don't know geometry, they will give you a true estimate, that will likely be just as wrong.

It is a complex problem that seems easy, but there are several obvious clues that will be misunderstood. This is common in real life estimates of less well known distances, such as estimating the distance to a deer in the woods versus one on the open plains, lighting, amount of time, etc.

Maybe Stacy paced off the distance. Maybe he is good at distance estimation contrary to most folks. He recanted the shot sequence with a revision. Let's see how the ranging and hits hold up.

A football field, BTW, is not 100 yards long. It is 120. Endzones are a part of the playing field. Everyone knows this, but don't include them when speaking of the length of a football field. It is 53.33 yards wide.
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Old August 2, 2012, 07:21 AM   #25
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Citizen Makes 165yd Shot With Revolver to Stop Murderer From Ambushing Cop

Well done and one heckuva fine shot at that distance.
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