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Old August 2, 2013, 04:02 PM   #26
laytonj1
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What would us “Commoners” call what Joe is doing? Gouging!
Joe's gunshop relies on the sell of guns, ammo and accessories to pay his employees, overhead and feed his family. When the gun and ammo shortage started Joe was left with little to sale because of the panic buying of consumers (that would be us).
As a result he had to mark up what little product he received in order to survive.. Joe knows how much he needs to make to stay afloat.

Walmart sells everything imaginable. If there were no guns or ammo to sell it would not affect their bottom line at all. They will survive just fine on the sell of everything else so what guns and ammo they receive does not require any additional mark-up.

I guess Joe should start selling groceries and household products also...

Now, while I'm sure some LGS's priced their product to the moon there were just as many consumers (again, that would be us) buying up all the ammo they could get (from Walmart) and asking crazy prices for it.

Now, if everybody quit buying from their LGS because they did not like him marking prices up above Walmart then Walmart will soon be the only place you'll be able to by from.

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Last edited by laytonj1; August 2, 2013 at 05:11 PM. Reason: grammer and info
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Old August 2, 2013, 04:30 PM   #27
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9mm fmj was, across the board, a dollar more than comparable .40 ammo at THE big sporting goods dealer in my area. Limit one box per person per day. $19.99 9mm vs 18.99 .40 for Blazer.
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Old August 2, 2013, 10:04 PM   #28
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Now, while I'm sure some LGS's priced their product to the moon there were just as many consumers (again, that would be us) buying up all the ammo they could get (from Walmart) and asking crazy prices for it.

Now, if everybody quit buying from their LGS because they did not like him marking prices up above Walmart then Walmart will soon be the only place you'll be able to by from.
I always expected to pay more from my LGS and didn't mind because buying locally is good for the economy. But a dollar a round? I'd rather buy from a corporate giant than be raped by a local.

I'll bet the LGSs suffered about as much from this "ammo shortage" as the oil companies have suffered from the "oil shortages."
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Old August 3, 2013, 07:51 AM   #29
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box of 50 federal 9mm fmj from lgs - $17
pack of 50 9mm reloads from same lgs - $17

Finally found some at another place and got their last box which was 147 gr winchester for $18
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Old August 3, 2013, 12:57 PM   #30
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We have at least one gun shop here that still sells 100 round boxes of Mini-mag .22 for $10.00. The "normal" cost is about $3.25. Is that gouging, YES. Is it selling, NO.
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Old August 3, 2013, 03:51 PM   #31
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Is that gouging, YES. Is it selling, NO.
That's like saying -
"Nobody goes there becaue it's too crowded"


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Old August 3, 2013, 09:21 PM   #32
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I still don't see anyone selling gas for .99 like it was just 10 years ago, or diesel for 1.59 like when I bought my first diesel pickup.

There is an unwritten rule that once a price barrier has been breached, it is very difficult to get back below it.

Thin about the first time you saw gas at $2...or $3. Shock, then anger, then acceptance. Do you expect to see those prices again? No...because the shock has passed. the anger has passed. there is only acceptance. depending on where you live, the $4 barrier may have been passed too. If you once paid $4 for gas, you are now grateful to "only" pay $3.50. Gothcha.

Same with ammo. We used to consider $4.99 a box for 9mm "normal". You will never see that price again. A few years ago, WM sold 9mm for just under $10/box. New normal. Now it is $20 a box. How "grateful" are you when you see it for $15 per box?

The sooner you start reloading, the farther ahead you will be.
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Old August 5, 2013, 03:57 PM   #33
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Bought Federal 9mm at walmart for $11.97 limit 3 boxes. Paid the same amount year ago at same walmart (although there was no limit back then).

Ammo supplies are getting back to "normal". My 2 LGS I frequent both now have 9mm, where as 2 months back they didn't have any. One sold out quickly (selling at $14.99 for box, 3 limit) while other still had his (selling at $19.99 for same box, 5 limit). That LGS is not selling and he has plenty to sell. I bought from neither as I've picked mine up from Walmart.

Price will come down. How much depends on demand and price people are willing to pay.
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Old August 5, 2013, 06:28 PM   #34
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In 2013 Joe’s Gun Shop buys WWB 9mm ammo for $10 (inflation plays it’s role) then puts it on the shelf for $30. Mark up of 300%. Was 60% now 300%.

What would us “Commoners” call what Joe is doing? Gouging!

My local Walmart sold WWB 9mm in 2010 for $10. They are selling it now for $15. The very same ammo, might even be the very same lot number as the ammo at Joe’s. Walmart is making a profit, otherwise they wouldn’t be selling it.

What would us “Commoners” call what Joe is doing? Gouging!

May not be a 100% correct term, but it’s fitting.

*Be advised that Joe’s Gun Shop is a mythical title used for dramatization. If there is a Joe’s Gun Shop out there, no harm intended. No one named Joe was injured during the filming of this documentary.
Retailers do NOT price their goods based on what they paid for it, but on what it costs to replace it - look at your gas station when prices change - if he sells it too cheap so folks like you come in and clean him out because everyone is selling it for higher prices he not only loses money, he cannot pay for new inventory which will cost him more nor will he be able to draw customers since he has nothing to sell. Without a constant cash flow he closes. Just because YOU do not like his prices, does not mean that someone else isn't WILLINGLY going to pay his asking price.

Let me post this little analogous story -
Mary goes into Joe's butcher shop and asks hims how much his whole chickens are. "$3.79 per pound", Joe replies. "$3.79 per pound!, why that's robbery. Max across the street has his chickens priced at $1.79 per pound!", she cries in exasperation. "So why aren't you over buying his chicken?", asks Joe. "Because he doesn't have any!", she says. "Well", says Joe, "When I don't have any chickens, my price will also be $1.79 per pound"...........

Last edited by BigD_in_FL; August 9, 2013 at 09:57 AM. Reason: spelling - as USUAL....
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Old August 5, 2013, 06:37 PM   #35
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The sooner you start reloading, the farther ahead you will be.
The sooner I can find 8 pounds of powder the sooner I will start reloading again. How much will I have to pay? How "grateful" will I be?
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Old August 5, 2013, 08:33 PM   #36
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When you find your powder, better max out the order and buy 3-4 8# jugs and some primers
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Old August 5, 2013, 09:04 PM   #37
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The sooner I can find 8 pounds of powder the sooner I will start reloading again.
Roger that!


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Old August 5, 2013, 09:05 PM   #38
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I have seen the price drop steadily. I just purchased 6 50 round boxes today at Cabelas for $13.99 each. This same ammo was $18 a box a month ago.
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Old August 6, 2013, 05:56 AM   #39
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Walmart just down the street had WWB 100 rd pack for $24.97. Tula was more expensive at $13.99 for 50 rounds.
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Old August 6, 2013, 10:37 PM   #40
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I stopped by a couple of local gun stores on the way home today. One had American Eagle 115gr 9mm for $13.99 a box of 50.

The prices are definitely coming down and availability is also improving.
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Old August 7, 2013, 07:18 PM   #41
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In my area, 9mm is still, by far, the most rare. I've bought 50 round FMJ boxes from $18.99 to $21.99 recently. I can't find any 100 round boxes unfortunately.

.40 and .45 can be round with relative ease at almost any store in my area (Walmart, Sporting Stores, etc.).

With that being said, for 9mm, all the stores in my area (that have reasonable prices) have box limits between 1-2 boxes, depending on the day. Stock is increasing, prices are decreasing. It's just going to be a matter of time before things get back to what they were previously. The supply/demand ratio will just have to adjust to market desired ratios, which they will.
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Old August 8, 2013, 08:30 PM   #42
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1994 vs 2014, ammunition sources....

In the early 1990s, when the first AWB(weapons ban) took effect, I do not recall the big upswing in firearm ammunition sales or reduced supply lines like today(2013).
Guns were still in stores & ammuntion could still purchased in boxes that went from 20/50 rounds up to 1000 round cases.
The prices(even adjusted for 1990s era #s) were not out-of-touch or high unlike today(2012/2013).
The wars(combat ops) in SW Asia could be a valid argument compared to the 1990s but they ended in 2011.

There's more to this supply & logistics problem but its a question of why.
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Old August 8, 2013, 09:46 PM   #43
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Because between then and now we added about 5,000,000 new gun owners and a huge amount of new reloaders when those new gun owners couldn't find ammo
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Old August 8, 2013, 11:22 PM   #44
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In the early 1990s, when the first AWB(weapons ban) took effect, I do not recall the big upswing in firearm ammunition sales or reduced supply lines like today(2013).
The ammunition supply was MUCH greater back then. We had TONS of cheap ammunition coming in from China (before Clinton banned it) and the surplus ammunition market was much more robust. You could still get 9mm surplus in several varieties and in quantity at very low prices.

China is no longer an option, and the surplus market is virtually non-existent compared to what it was in the early 1990s. Today we buy mostly new manufacture ammunition, especially in handgun calibers. That means it's much less difficult than it would have been in the 1990s for demand spikes to overwhelm supply and empty the supply chain.

And, of course, there's more demand now with more shooters/gun owners. That's probably mostly a wash though since the manufacturers are geared up to deal with the normal demand, including the normal demand growth.
Quote:
There's more to this supply & logistics problem but its a question of why.
It's simply supply and demand. It's just that one must consider a number of factors to get a clear picture of the situation.
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Old August 9, 2013, 12:26 AM   #45
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Let's at least get the math right guys!

If a retailer purchases an item for 6 bucks and sells it for 10 bucks, that is a 40% gross profit margin, not a 60% margin.

Many wholesale prices are 40 or 50 off suggested list.
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Old August 9, 2013, 12:47 AM   #46
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IMO, 9mm will never be as cheap as they used to be.

Inflation is always a factor; When I first started shooting a few years ago, Federal 50rd Brass was $9 at Walmart. About the same for others like WWB and Blazer etc.

Before the panic I clearly remember Federal 50rd to be about $11/box of $50, Tula steel was about $7/box.

Now the average price for cheap brass is at least $15 per 50rds. I just bought some brass ammo at walmart last week for $15/50.

Even if supply/demand relax down the road, we will never see $11/50rds of 9mm again. I think the best we can expect is $14/box.
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Old August 9, 2013, 05:05 AM   #47
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Even if supply/demand relax down the road, we will never see $11/50rds of 9mm again. I think the best we can expect is $14/box.
I can buy 9mm from a local gun store for $13.99 a box right now.

Also, the Wal-Marts in this area are still selling WWB 100 packs for around $23-$24. That would be equivalent to $11.50 to $12.00 a box of 50. I just won't stand in line for 3-4 hours for a chance to buy some.

What I'm saying is that even with the demand still high and some areas still badly affected by the shortage, some areas are already seeing prices down to and below what you're saying is the bottom limit.

I don't expect to see prices like we had back in the early 2000s when you could buy WWB 100 packs at Wal-Mart for $11 or $12, but I think we're definitely going to get back down to last summer's prices. Back then you could buy 9mm practice ammo for about 22 to 23 cents a round if you did your shopping. In fact, with metal prices falling and the possibility of increased production capacity since demand has been high for quite awhile, I think it's reasonable to predict that we could see prices drop below 20 cents a round for 9mm practice ammo by this time next year.
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Old August 9, 2013, 04:18 PM   #48
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Post 44; ammunition prices...

Post #44 put a lot into it.
I still say there are some major firms using the FUD business practice.
(fear uncertainty doubt)

Brass, lead, copper, etc can go up in price but the extremes in 2012/2013 are really beyond the pale.

I guess the only alternative may be to tote a compound bow & a few sharp arrows.

CF
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Old August 9, 2013, 07:13 PM   #49
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BigD_in_FL
Buy in bulk, learn to reload and don't get caught short next time...
Next time...? How pessimistic...
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Old August 9, 2013, 08:39 PM   #50
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f a retailer purchases an item for 6 bucks and sells it for 10 bucks, that is a 40% gross profit margin, not a 60% margin.

Many wholesale prices are 40 or 50 off suggested list.
True, but too many here think that all of that margin goes in the shop owner's pocket where in reality MAYBE 10% of the remainder might
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