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Old July 30, 2013, 05:09 PM   #26
Rob228
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I take my pistol off when I get home, but I do keep it within an arms distance.

Quote:
For apartment preparation, I've never liked the flimsy little chains on the door. Something like this seems a little sturdier. Then again, this also seems like a good thing to use.
I used the first one in my apartment when I still lived in CA after we had an attempted break in. Installed it with 3 inch screws, the whole apartment shook if we forgot it was in place and tried to open the door, that thing was solid.
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Old July 30, 2013, 09:58 PM   #27
RBid
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Door to door massacre in Miami. (Preparation?)

I carry whenever I'm awake. It has NOTHING to do with wanting to John McClane any bad guys, despite my belief that Die Hard is the greatest action movie of all time.

I keep the door locked. There are no plants near the outside of the windows. The residence is well lit. We live in an area with a low crime index. We have a yappy, protective dog. The doors are reinforced.

That is to say, we understand that defense starts with making yourself an unattractive and inconvenient target.

If someone is determined enough to get in, and given the stated goal of zero violence, then I need a powerful deterrent. If a deterrent doesn't work, only then will I shoot.



My rationale for carrying at home is this simple:
- I'm perfectly comfortable with my carry set up on
- I know people who have needed firearms in their home, including a friend who needed it instantly
- carrying on body is the best way for my firearm to be both accessible, and secure (I have kids).
- given the above note about comfort, there is no good reason for me to NOT carry at home.
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Old July 30, 2013, 10:46 PM   #28
JohnKSa
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Another thought to add to the many already pointed out.

When I'm out and about, there's rarely anything around me that I care to protect. Retreat is almost always an option and almost always the best option. And if something does go wrong in public, it's likely someone will see and summon the authorities who are likely to respond rapidly.

At home, I'm surrounded by things and people I want to protect. Retreat is rarely an option and even if it were, it would be a poor one. Worst of all, if something goes wrong in my home and I can't respond to the threat effectively and rapidly, the odds are good no one will notice anything outside or next door. Homes are intended to be private places and they are.

Even if someone does notice something, the police probably won't respond as rapidly because I'm farther from the center of things in my suburban home than in town.

If anything, it makes far more sense to carry at home than it does in public. Maybe the odds are lower that you'll need it at home, but if you do, the need will likely be far more urgent and your options far less varied than in public.
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Old July 31, 2013, 12:02 AM   #29
Koda94
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Quote:
I ain't buying that one bit. I've kicked doors, it just takes a second to kick a door and be in the living room.
I think anyone worrying about this the first thing they should do is get a stronger door.
in this incident, it depends on the apartment complex. Most apartments don't give the renter an option at upgrading the doors, or windows.

as for preparation, I don't see any harm in being prepared in your own home however you choose. When I read this story earlier this week it opened my eye to home invasions.
It can happen at the mall... the movies... the college... and your own home/community.
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Old July 31, 2013, 02:32 AM   #30
Jammer Six
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I carry when I leave home. Unless I'm going somewhere it's illegal.

Or unless I don't want to.

I never carry at home.

I've been carjacked. I was armed, didn't need the weapon, never felt particularly endangered.
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Old July 31, 2013, 05:51 AM   #31
redhologram
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I carry on body at home and when I am out. If I'm in the shower, it's nearby as well. When sleeping, it's on nightstand. If I get up during the night for something, I slip one in my robe with me. To find me going "baaaa" is only done when there is a law in place preventing me from carrying and it's somewhere I really have to be.
Being that my EDC is similar to the 1911 platform and I keep my 1911 on my nightstand, I keep both in Condition 1.

But when I think of how it could happen in an instant that someone could be in this house, between me and my kids and my firearms are in another room, or just where I can't get to for whatever reason, and I am helpless to protect them.... Y'all only think everything you've heard about redheads and tempers are true.... My blood pressure goes up.

So yes.. around here, mama is always carrying.
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Old July 31, 2013, 06:46 AM   #32
rebs
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I own my home and live in a semi country setting, I only have one close neighbor. So my approach to home security is I have two doberman pinschers that are fully trained guard dogs. They alert when someone comes close to my house, even if they are walking down the street in front of the house. So I will know immediately if anyone is close. I feel that gives me plenty of time to retrieve my firearm if I need it, first the person would have to get passed the two dogs. I have two so I can at times take one with me and still have one at home protecting my house. I walk them around the neighborhood so every one knows I have them. I have not had any security problems since I bought the dogs.
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Old July 31, 2013, 06:46 AM   #33
45_auto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redhologram
or just where I can't get to for whatever reason, and I am helpless to protect them
Most trainers will tell you that mindset is the most important means of surviving a lethal confrontation. You'll find that neither a weapon nor the most awesome martial skills will do you any good once you've decided that you're "helpless" and all is lost.

Probably a good justification to keep a firearm on you at all times if you feel "helpless" without one.
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Old July 31, 2013, 08:23 AM   #34
Tymah123
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Hey kraigwy or anyone else who has extensive experience kicking in doors, I have a question for you: I own an apartment on the 5th floor so my only vulnerable point of entry is the front door. I've got one of those metal fireproof doors that seems very solid, the frame is metal as well. Have you had any experience kicking in that kind of a door and how did it perform? I'd like to know if I need to upgrade the door or will this metal door hold up for some time? I would like to not test this on my own door so that's why I'm asking here, thank you kindly!
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Old July 31, 2013, 10:02 AM   #35
Seaman
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Only time the guns come off is when I'm in the bathtub, its an old iron enameled claw foot, with side-plates for a good book... and a couple of 45s.

People have been killed in showers, can't hear nothing, gun on toilet... good luck with that.

People should relax with a nice long soak.

Paranoid? ... not when I'm packin.
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Old July 31, 2013, 10:46 AM   #36
coldbeer
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Everybody's situation is different so I'm not going to judge or criticise anyone, but when I come home from work I like to lay down on the couch and watch TV. I can't afford to fall asleep with a loaded gun on the coffee table next to me even if it is only two feet away. I have way too many small children running around. My guns stay in a safe.
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Old July 31, 2013, 11:09 AM   #37
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I was going to comment on that... a lot of people mistake having no weapon with being unarmed.
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Old July 31, 2013, 11:22 AM   #38
wayneinFL
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By definition, "unarmed" means having no weapon.
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Old July 31, 2013, 11:54 AM   #39
Constantine
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Door to door massacre in Miami. (Preparation?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer Six View Post
I was going to comment on that... a lot of people mistake having no weapon with being unarmed.
Having no weapon on you is being unarmed. When you grab the weapon from behind a curtain, then you're armed.
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Old July 31, 2013, 12:55 PM   #40
Rikakiah
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While crime can and does happen all over, I believe you still have to consider your area when planning. I live on the top floor apartment in a nicer area. Can something happen? Yeah. Do I get my gun or at least a knife in hand when I get a knock at 10:30 at night? Yep. However, both times, it's been a friend of the frat boys below me who had the wrong apartment.

Yes, it can happen, but the risk factor is low enough for me that I don't feel justified to keep it at hand 24/7. If I lived in a "higher risk" area, I would probably be prepared differently.
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Old July 31, 2013, 01:11 PM   #41
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnKSa
Another thought to add to the many already pointed out.
All good points, John.

In regards to likelihoods, I'm not sure it's fully representative but according to the NRA's Armed Citizen Analysis, 52% of incidents occur inside the home and 32% in a business. It's not clear if the business is the actual person's business or just "in a business", which I would consider to be a public place. If it's the actual defenders business, it would indicate that 84% of incidents took place in what, to the defender, wouldn't necessarily be a "public place".
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Old August 1, 2013, 01:35 AM   #42
redhologram
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 45_auto
Most trainers will tell you that mindset is the most important means of surviving a lethal confrontation. You'll find that neither a weapon nor the most awesome martial skills will do you any good once you've decided that you're "helpless" and all is lost.

Probably a good justification to keep a firearm on you at all times if you feel "helpless" without one.
Don't assume my use of an adjective on an internet forum to make a point is the same as my "mindset".

Last edited by Vanya; August 1, 2013 at 09:06 AM. Reason: no need for antagonism.
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Old August 4, 2013, 09:24 PM   #43
Jammer Six
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Quote:
Having no weapon on you is being unarmed.
Quote:
By definition, "unarmed" means having no weapon.
If that definition works for you, I suppose you should keep it.
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Old August 4, 2013, 10:15 PM   #44
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If bad guys are using SWAT tactics then it's a very different problem few of us are likely truly ready for, or more likely may not survive. One unique approach, and I'll look for the link, at least 1 guy in Texas has high pressure gas set to go off and ignite as a flame thrower when an intruder enters. Short of automatic or having the zoned security Michael Dell or Carlos Slim has, there are practical limits.
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Old August 4, 2013, 10:46 PM   #45
Vanya
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One unique approach, and I'll look for the link, at least 1 guy in Texas has high pressure gas set to go off and ignite as a flame thrower when an intruder enters.
I'd be interested in a link. I seriously doubt that's legal... even in Texas.

Booby traps are frowned on in every jurisdiction I'm aware of.
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Old August 4, 2013, 11:35 PM   #46
Frank Ettin
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Originally Posted by Vanya
Quote:
One unique approach, and I'll look for the link, at least 1 guy in Texas has high pressure gas set to go off and ignite as a flame thrower when an intruder enters.
I'd be interested in a link. I seriously doubt that's legal... even in Texas.

Booby traps are frowned on in every jurisdiction I'm aware of.
Yes, I think that would be a serious problem, even in Texas.

In fact, this Texas lawyer seems to suggest that a booby trap might be okay, but he points out some very serious and important caveats:
  1. Quote:
    ...your booby-trap can't be "designed to cause, or known by [you] to create a substantial risk of causing, death or serious bodily injury." ...
  2. Quote:
    ...use of the booby-trap must be reasonable under all of the circumstances as you believe them to be when installing it. ...
  3. Quote:
    ...I’m not going to give you opinions on what kinds of booby-traps would qualify here, but I imagine that it is something that would be an annoying deterrent rather than an actual “trap.” ...
  4. Quote:
    ...If your booby-trap constitutes the use of force on anyone, then you must take great care and consideration before deploying it because use of force requires that you reasonably believe that force is immediately necessary. If your booby-trap uses force on someone that it wasn’t reasonable to use force on (child wanders on your property) then you will probably have your own crime to answer for....

So it looks like the flame-thrower trap is a very bad idea.
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Old August 4, 2013, 11:49 PM   #47
ClydeFrog
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CP-TED....

I'm not a super expert on security systems or a SME on crime prevention but I have heard of what many instructors & security consultants call; CP TED or "cep-ted", which is crime prevention thru environmental design.
Bushes with thorns, vehicle barriers, open spaces with CCTVs/DV cameras, levels, locks, etc all are part of a CP-TED system.

I've brung it up on gun/tactics forums before in the past but one of the best examples I ever saw was a episode of Montel Williams old TV talk show.
A young woman was discussing how TV reporters or well known public figures can have major problems with obsessed fans or stalkers.
The TV reporter said a stalker was able to get access to her condo & the problems she had with the lax security.
Williams(an enlisted Marine who went to the US Naval Academy) cut in & ask the woman why she chose to live in such a unsafe area.
He was 100% right!
People need to be pro-active & have a security plan or system.
If a apartment bldg is unsafe or risky, don't live there! If a hotel or motel looks rough, do not stay there.
I'd pay the extra $15.00 or $20.00 to stay in a upscale chain hotel room then be at risk in a run down dump.

Clyde
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Old August 5, 2013, 12:08 AM   #48
Ricklin
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Replace the screws

The earlier poster how inquired about steel doors being easy to kick in.

It's not the door that usually breaks, it's the door frame.

One of the best and easiest ways to strengthen the door is to replace the screws that hold the hinges and especially the strike plate for the lock.

Replace those short little screws with three inch long screws. The screw size can be the same, it's the length that is important.

A three inch screw should reach and penetrate the stud that the door frame is attached to.

Even apartment dwellers can do the above. It does not effect the looks of the door.

It does make the door far more resistant to being kicked in.
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Old August 5, 2013, 02:24 AM   #49
Jammer Six
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The screw size can be the same, it's the length that is important.
Actually, it's the shear strength.
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Old August 5, 2013, 07:09 AM   #50
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Quote:
Quote:
The screw size can be the same, it's the length that is important.
Actually, it's the shear strength.
In my experience, screws don't break when you force a door open. They bend or pull out, or the wood breaks.

Quote:
People need to be pro-active & have a security plan or system.
If a apartment bldg is unsafe or risky, don't live there! If a hotel or motel looks rough, do not stay there.
I'd pay the extra $15.00 or $20.00 to stay in a upscale chain hotel room then be at risk in a run down dump.
How upscale are you talking? $20 isn't going to make that much of a difference.
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