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Old July 29, 2013, 09:41 PM   #1
ClydeFrog
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Fox News Channel; HBO, The Cheshire Murders...

I read over a 07/25/2013 Fox News Channel item about the LE response to the tragic home invasion in CT six years ago where two savage felons raped & murdered a mother & her 2 young daughters while the father(a doctor) was beaten & tied up in the basement.
The bad guys burned the house down & fled. They were later arrested & convicted on multiple charges.
The HBO documentary is on the GO system & may be available in other formats.
This home invasion & murder should be reviewed by any home owner who has guns for protection.
The Fox article brings up the local LE response to the incident and demonstrates how violent/aggressive criminals can be.

CF
PS: To my knowledge, one of the felons attempted suicide while in custody.
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Old July 29, 2013, 10:15 PM   #2
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If the discussion can focus on lessons to be learned, fine. If it starts going off track, this thread will be closed.
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Old July 29, 2013, 10:18 PM   #3
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And links would be helpful...
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Old July 30, 2013, 11:25 AM   #4
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I don't know if the victim's in this incident had firearms in the home or not, but it and just about ever other home invasions I've read about stress the fact that the gun in the bedroom is of little value while you're setting on your couch watching TV.

Or a gun by your lounging chair is useless if you're in the kitchen fixing dinner.

Just Saying......................
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Old July 30, 2013, 11:30 AM   #5
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Unless I'm mistaken, the OP refers to the Petit family murders, which happened in Cheshire, CT. A Wikipedia article on this can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshir...vasion_murders
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Old July 30, 2013, 11:58 AM   #6
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That incident is one to take a lot of hard lessons from. One of the most important ones is when to make the decision to fight back.

Criminals like the ones in that incident are the dregs of society. They would normally have no power or influence over an affluent family. Suddenly, they have complete control over these people and while their initial motivation may have been burglary (I could be wrong), in the rush of power they rape, torture and murder.

It also shows what can happen in any neighborhood.
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Old July 30, 2013, 04:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
It also shows what can happen in any neighborhood.
"In Cold Blood" read it, was a long time ago, same thing, bad ending for the folks. They were hung after convicted and now belive more murders were attributed to these creeps.
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Old July 30, 2013, 05:33 PM   #8
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I've had two sets of neighbors tell me how safe they feel in our neighborhood and how nothing ever happens here. Both times I nodded and smiled all the while carrying a legally concealed Glock 23.
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Old July 30, 2013, 05:43 PM   #9
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good neighborhood?....

In the late 2000s a "good neighborhood" in my city was the scene of a huge firefight.
A 911 hang up call led to county sheriff's office deputies having to shoot it out with crooks hiding in a stash house of $$$ & drugs. Over 300 rounds were fired in total.
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Old July 30, 2013, 09:31 PM   #10
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It also shows what can happen in any neighborhood.
The big shootout with the Tsarnaev brothers in April was in my hometown of Watertown, about 2 blocks from my house. I could hear the IED's and gunfire while it was going on, the town was literally locked down and turned into a war zone. As if the Boston Marathon bombing was not hitting too close to home, having those actual bombers come to our town and shoot it out with police as well as throw IED's was just mind blowing and a reality check that in this world ANYTHING can happen ANYWHERE, I don't care where you live. Many of the anti-gunners in my town applied for firearm permits soon after because there was a big fear that they would force their way into a home and hold people hostage.

Quote:
I've had two sets of neighbors tell me how safe they feel in our neighborhood and how nothing ever happens here.
Some people who know I carry have told me "there's no reason to carry in Watertown nothing bad ever happens here". Well, something bad did happen. Not to mention my town is a 3 minute drive from Boston and about every 15 minutes several busses run to and from Boston. Dorchester and Roxbury are 15 minutes away where there is high gang activity and constant homicides. The town is only 4 square miles although close to 35,000 people live in that area. So what some peoples idea of safe is a little different than mine.

Last edited by Dragline45; August 1, 2013 at 10:18 PM.
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Old July 31, 2013, 08:58 AM   #11
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having those actual bombers come to our town and shoot it out with police as well as throw IED's was just mind blowing and a reality check that in this world ANYTHING can happen ANYWHERE, I don't care where you live.

I'd say that was a wake-up call!
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Old August 1, 2013, 05:52 PM   #12
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A very long time ago, my brother and his first wife lived in Cheshire, Connecticut, very near to where the Petit murders took place, so I followed the case closely from the time it took place. There was never any mention of firearms, and given the typical outlook of the town and the area, I'm guessing (pure conjecture, I admit) that the Petit family would never have considered owning a firearm, for any reason -- at least, not before the event.

One thing I find puzzling: I am VERY certain that, back at the time the incident was fresh in the news, I read at least one article that reported the Petits had a home alarm system that they routinely did NOT activate, because they lived in a "safe" neighborhood. I have since searched diligently for any confirmation or follow-up of that, and I have found exactly nothing. But -- Cheshire, Connecticut, is an up-scale suburb of New Haven, and the Petit house was in an up-scale subdivision within an up-scale town. I very much doubt that there are any houses in that subdivision that were NOT built with alarm systems as part of the original construction.

The lesson to be learned, IMHO, is simply to never assume that "It can't happen here."

Sadly, the world has changed. I'm a senior citizen. Where I grew up, we never locked the doors at night, and in the summer we left the front door open so the breeze could blow through the screen door. We never locked the cars when parked in the driveway.

In more recent years, my childhood hometown has seen armed home invasions, hostage situations, and numerous incidents of cars being stolen out of locked garages. The population of the town hasn't increased all that much, but the size of the police force has increased from a chief and two patrol officers to something like 30 or 35 full-time officers.

Dorothy was right -- we're not in Kansas any more.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; August 1, 2013 at 05:57 PM.
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Old August 1, 2013, 09:00 PM   #13
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Dallas-Fort Worth Texas area scam....

Another point along with home defense firearms & alarm systems is being alert to any warning signs or odd behavior.
The Fox station in the Dallas/Fort Worth Texas area has done a few news stories about a crook who poses as a gas company employee.
He's brazen & walks right into businesses w/o much notice.
Disguises & fake uniforms are not uncommon with some advanced criminals in 2013.
It always amazes me how much personal information people will give you or how careless some office workers are with employee contact details(phone #s, email addresses, home addresses, etc).
In Feb & April, I worked a short term security detail for a major film/TV production company in Stamford CT. I would see office notes & documents with personal data on it often. When it was no longer needed, I'd shred it or throw the company forms in a Iron Mountain container so no stalkers or crooks could dig it up later.
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Old August 1, 2013, 09:43 PM   #14
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If I remember the details of the Petit case correctly the wife was sent to the bank to withdraw a large sum of money.
She alerted the bank teller of what was going on and the bank teller alerted the police.

In their infinite wisdom the police waited for a search warrant before entering the home allowing the perpetrators time to rape and murder the 3 Petit women.

All the more reason for everyone in the home to know how to use whatever is at their disposal for self defense.
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Old August 1, 2013, 10:58 PM   #15
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The "gun" they used was actually an airgun, and their other weapon was a baseball bat that one source says they found in the yard. Sad to think how easily they could have been overcome had anyone in the house had access to a firearm.
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Old August 1, 2013, 11:19 PM   #16
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Fox News Channel; HBO, The Cheshire Murders...

As grim as this crime was, and while keeping guard up is always a good idea no matter where you are, I think it's important to mention that there is actually much less violent crime now than there used to be "The good old days" were statistically more dangerous. 24/7 media creates the impression of the opposite.
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Old August 2, 2013, 10:28 AM   #17
ClydeFrog
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post 14, LE response.....

I agree with #14. To me, the local PD actions were sub-standard. To my limited knowledge the SWAT/SRT unit(s) waited around the property for nearly 20/25 min rather than make entry.
One of the points of the Fox News Story was how the small town's LE response was not reviewed or modified after this tragic event.

If I were a neighbor or were near the house & the doctor told me what was going on, I'd make entry and make contact with the subjects.
I'd rather be arrested or charged with obstruction than let 3 women be raped & murdered.
If the felons turned it into a hostage stand off then so be it.
I'd add that if I were in the doctors position and I knew a close neighbor or passer-by made entry to save me & my family I would not blame them or hold them liable for the death of any victim in the outcome.

After the George Zimmerman event, my city's PD put out a website notice telling citizens to "don't provoke and don't pursue".
I disagree with that advice and wouldn't follow it in this incident.
FWIW: the "don't provoke" website message has since been removed. I think the city atty's office explained to the chief of police what was wrong with those statements.
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Old August 2, 2013, 11:36 AM   #18
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Not entering by police and waiting for SWAT has been standard doctrine for so long that many departments have no abandoned it. Modern literature and training suggests the opposite. If that department had the word on such is unknown.
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Old August 2, 2013, 05:35 PM   #19
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I just finished watching this movie. Thoughts and prayers for Dr. Petit. That and a complete review of the home security measures.

IMHO the film's message is that you're on your own. Not that I didn't know that already. But this film was a very stark reminder.
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Old August 2, 2013, 07:26 PM   #20
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Told my wife about this and told her, "If you want to understand why I carry at home, watch it." Later, when I went back out to the living room, she was watching it on demand.

She's never had a problem with my carry habits, but she feels even stronger about it now.
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Old August 2, 2013, 08:11 PM   #21
ClydeFrog
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good & bad....

These events are tragic & I posted this news story partly to increase awareness.
I saw on the news program; Inside Edition, that the father is now re-married & is expecting a son with his new wife.

As posted, I'd encourage other forum members to share this HBO doc so more 2A supporters & license holders can be aware of it.
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Old August 2, 2013, 09:14 PM   #22
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Quote:
...the father is now re-married & is expecting a son with his new wife.
It would be interesting to find out if and how his experience has changed his views on personal and home security.
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Old August 2, 2013, 11:30 PM   #23
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Read "In Cold Blood" by Truman Capote, then watch the black and white movie. Excellent read and ente5tainment at the same time. Truman can sure write 'em!
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Old August 4, 2013, 02:29 PM   #24
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I would like to share a friends experience when her mother was a victim of a home invasion. Though things went different for her the lessons in her case do bring up a point.

My friends mother had a revolver and made easy enough access to it when the home invasion/robbery occurred. She produced her firearm in a self defense posture then didn't use it. One of the suspects took it from her and shot her with it. She lived but has many health issues from the wounds.

The point is somewhat self-explanatory. Prepared as she thought she was, she made a critical mistake and I often wonder not only how many people will make the same mistake, but how many people would change their view on what to do if they have a self defense situation.

The case the Op speaks of brings another of my most pondered thoughts as to how many people who (as already mentioned in previous post) after knowing how vulnerable we can be in our own home would actually change their view on self defense.

Even more so, how many of them that say they wouldn't change their view would quickly do so if they where in the same predicament and could reach a firearm?

Sad to say I know some would not.
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Old August 4, 2013, 03:13 PM   #25
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Prepared is a relative statement. We know folks freeze up. That's why having a gun and shooting at the square range is all well and good but we know that folks need stress inoculation that modern courses can provide.

It is expensive and can be a hassle.

I recall two force on force incidents. In one, two women trainee came face to face. One froze and the other shot her. Gender has nothing to do it with. In the same class, a guy who claimed loudly his marital arts prowess got knocked on his rear end and hosed by the aggressor. Just froze up.

Look at the Tacoma Mall incident - the concealed carrier couldn't answer the Question (could you pull the trigger) and was terribly wounded with life long problems.

The best we can do is try to prepare.
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