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Old July 25, 2013, 02:22 PM   #1
Gaz_in_NZ
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Cases sticking in cylinder.

Hi,
This might sound like a noob question but what causes cases to be hard to eject or remove from a cylinder?

The last 3 revolvers I have borrowed have suffered from this problem and my old Performance Center 686 that I had in the UK never, ever suffered from this all the years that I had it, I could open the cylinder and with a very slight touch of the ejector rod dump all 6 immediately and use a Jet Loader to quickly reload which is a must for timed events.

I appreciate that they expand, but is there any mechanical problem that can cause this?

Thanks in advance,
Cheers
G
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Old July 25, 2013, 02:25 PM   #2
Gaz_in_NZ
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Sorry, should have posted this in the Revolver section.
Cheers
G
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Old July 25, 2013, 02:28 PM   #3
ammo.crafter
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sticky wicket?

Are you using reloads or factory new ammo?

If reloads make certain recipe is absolutely correct and cylinders are spotless.

Do the primers show excessive pressure?

Good luck.
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Old July 25, 2013, 02:45 PM   #4
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In addition to ammo.crafter's questions...

What kind of revolver? What caliber?

Does the ammo use steel or aluminum cases?

Do the cases show any signs of damage after ejection?

If the revolver has a swing-out cylinder, is the cylinder difficult to swing out after firing?
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Old July 25, 2013, 02:56 PM   #5
Gaz_in_NZ
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Colt Python, S&W 686 and S&W 629.
All showed the same problem with Factory loads, .38 Spec in the python and 686 and .44Mag Factory in the 629.
Brass in the 629 and Ni in the Python and 686.
Cylinders on all opened (and closed) OK, especially the Python.

Cases looked OK after ejection, cursory glance only, no splits, bulges or ripples and the primers looked OK, again cursory look, but nothing obviously untoward.

Forgot to say 686 and 629 are both club guns (but usually very well maintained) and the Python was lent to me by the club President as it's one of my all time most wanted gun (he doesn't shoot it much these days, he uses a Smith).

Cheers
G

Last edited by Gaz_in_NZ; July 25, 2013 at 03:03 PM. Reason: Added info
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Old July 25, 2013, 03:34 PM   #6
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Eliminating over pressure rounds & .38 carbon deposit rings as possible causes I'd suggest rough chamber walls from a graunched up reamer, or lack of finish polishing would be my next guess.

I don't know if you can do this to a club gun, so ask them first.

Take a piece of "Scotchbrite" (not sure if the brand exists there, but its a synthetic green kitchen scouring pad), cut it into a 1/2" wide strip across the pad & cut that in half to get 2 identical oblong pieces.

Take a slightly small cleaning kit slotted jag & bully a corner into the slot. Pull it in tight so it gets frmly wedged. Chuck a length of cleaning rod section into a power drill & screw the jag to that. Wet the pad with your preferred bore cleaner & SLOWLY run the spiralled abrasive back & forth a few times with the drill on LOW speed.

Repeat with the other dry piece.

Take a bore mop that will be a tight fit in the chamber & dampen it with a little brass cleaner. Remove the jag tip & put the mop on. SLOWLY run it in & out about 6~10 times on LOW speed.

Clean the chambers thoroughly.

What you've done is polish & hone smooth any minor marks that "grab" your fired brass. As long as you don't go hog wild you won't change any dimensions, just buff & shine irregularities.
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Old July 25, 2013, 03:46 PM   #7
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Thanks,
Yes Scotchbright is around here too, I use it on my urethane spares bowling ball for a quick wipe down when the hook starts to fade.

I'll see if they will let me (or our tame gunsmith) do that with them.
As for brass cleaner will Solvol Autosol be any use?.
I didn't check the Python but I would have thought (rightly or wrongly) that if you were the owner of a Python you would keep it spotless. I wiped it down externally with a cleaning cloth after each 10 I put through it, I do the same with the club guns but I never see anyone else doing the same thing.

Cheers
G
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Old July 25, 2013, 04:41 PM   #8
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+1 on cleaning the cylinder.

The Python is a .357 Magnum, and I note that you mentioned shooting .38 Special through it. That's fine -- you're not the first person and you won't be the last to shoot .38 Special out of a .357 Magnum. But you have to remember that when you do this, the chamber will extend beyond the case for a short distance before stepping down to the bore diameter. This gap tends to build up an accumulation of hard, burned crud (for lack of a better term), consisting of burned powder residue, lubricant, and possibly lead and/or copper. If that carbon ring isn't periodically and carefully cleaned out, I would expect it to gradually migrate towards the rear of the chamber, and I can see how it might easily build up to such extent that it would begin grabbing the mouths of the fired cases.
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Old July 25, 2013, 04:46 PM   #9
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I vote for the 38 in a 357 cylinder as senor Blanca suggests. If I shoot lead 22 shorts out of my 22LR revolver, it only takes a few to lead up the cylinder prior to the smaller diameter section. After that LRs become difficult to eject.

Get the lead out! Or at least consider that you're putting it in.


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Old July 25, 2013, 05:50 PM   #10
Gaz_in_NZ
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I mainly shot .38Spec through my own 686 for years and never had this problem but it did get cleaned (especially the front end of the cylinder) after every time I shot it with .38's.
The 629 was also doing this though...

Could it just be that they haven't been thoroughly cleaned correctly?
The rounds dropped in OK but I've never had cases that hard to remove before.

At our club you can only ever put Factory loads through club guns, reloads are a big no 'cause you never know just what is in a home load.

Could the cylinder bores be excessively worn as I have no idea just how old these guns are? I know the Python has been owned by the same guy for 25years+ and has put 1000's of rounds through it in its lifetime.

Cheers
G
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Old July 25, 2013, 06:11 PM   #11
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Gaz, those nickel plated cases are still brass, and brass is, or course, the best. Steel rounds in revolvers can give problems in extraction since the steel doesn't spring back as well as brass.

The aluminum cases, which are only made by CCI and may not be available to you, are better than steel in my experience. But they still can be a little reluctant to fall out of the cylinder.

I may be imagining it, but it sometimes seems like a warmed-up revolver will have slower extractions than a cold one. I know that seems odd since it isn't much warming I'm talking about. And it may just be the chambers getting dirty.

There is such a thing as a chamber brush. It will look like a regular bore cleaning brush but have slightly larger diameter, to clean better where the brass sits in the chamber.

It may be that only one chamber in six is causing a problem, since it would hinder the ejection of all brass due to them all coming out at once. Perhaps if you concentrate on the worst looking one, you can get what you want with minimum effort.

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Old July 26, 2013, 07:32 AM   #12
wogpotter
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.40 caliber brush makes a great chamber cleaning brush for 38/357!
Do clean thoroughly first & only do the polish if the clean doesn't fix the problem though.
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Old July 26, 2013, 08:41 AM   #13
Zhillsauditor
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I was shooting my model 63 recently and notice the problem. I ususally clean after shooting, but I must have missed the cylinder chambers on the 63 as there was some carbon buildup. Anyway, I removed the cylinder, and soaked it in hoppes for a day. Cleaned with patches and thought the cylinders looked fine. I thought I'd try some lead removal cloth though, as that is what I use on the cylinder face when it gets really blackened. Sure enough, despite all my cleaning, all the cylinders gave up a bunch of carbon to the lead removal cloth.
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Old July 26, 2013, 08:55 AM   #14
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Quote:
... I removed the cylinder, and soaked it in hoppes for a day...
That works well on most guns, just remember not to do it with a nickel plated gun, it can dissolve the copper layer that bonds the nickel to the steel, and cause the nickel to bubble and flake off. Fine for cleaning nickel guns, not good to soak them with.
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Old July 26, 2013, 10:39 AM   #15
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If the problem is not rectified as per the above cleaning suggestions, inasmuch as they are "club guns", they may have high round counts. I had a S&W 58 (.41 Magnum) in which either R-P or W-W (cannot remember which) cases would stick, the other brand not being a problem. Turns out that the gun had excessive end shake and the difference between the thickness of the two different brands of rim thickness made a difference. So, if everything else fails, check for end-shake.
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Old July 27, 2013, 10:45 AM   #16
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Cylinder rotation is wrong for the Southern Hemisphere. Coriolis Force don't you know.
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Old July 27, 2013, 11:37 AM   #17
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Be advised that scotch brite on certain surfaces can cause microscopic scratches and can turn into cracks that can lead to failure.

Not a metallurgist so I don't know if that can occur in this case but we are dealing with high pressure and highly polished surfaces and the non gun failure know of was a highly polished surface.


I would not use anytime other than a brass brush and gun solvents
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Old July 27, 2013, 12:09 PM   #18
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If you are a handloader... or you know a handloader, a good trick for removing revolver cylinder crud is to take a Magnum piece of brass and run it through the size die -- and then run it through the case mouth flare die. Give it a nice, big (too much?) flare so that it'll just go in to the chamber.

Now lightly tap it all the way in to bottom it in the chamber.

Use a wood dowel from the cylinder face to lightly tap it out.
Repeat as necessary, do all chambers.

The piece of brass is much softer than the cylinder, it won't harm anything, but it becomes a purpose-built "tool" for removing the crud from cylinder. Works very well.

Just don't use the revolvers ejector rod to remove this "tool." You don't need to impart that kind of stress on it or the crane.
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Old July 27, 2013, 03:00 PM   #19
wogpotter
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Quote:
Be advised that scotch brite on certain surfaces can cause microscopic scratches and can turn into cracks that can lead to failure.
Do you have a source for that info? I've never heard of anything remotely resembling it before.
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Old July 27, 2013, 09:33 PM   #20
Gaz_in_NZ
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Quote:
Cylinder rotation is wrong for the Southern Hemisphere. Coriolis Force don't you know.
But I would have thought the Colt would have been OK...
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Old July 27, 2013, 09:37 PM   #21
Gaz_in_NZ
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Cheers to all who took time out to reply, it's very much appreciated.

Thanks
G
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Old July 30, 2013, 08:15 PM   #22
bedbugbilly
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I don't think this relates to your problem as I think you are primarily talking CF cylinders. I have had problems with several .22 revolvers though - sometimes it can be due to the ammo dimensions of the .22 ammo between brands . . . other times, sticking while ejecting a spent cartridge can be caused by too much oil on the walls of the chamber from previous cleaning - especially if the tolerances are tight. I always make sure I run a couple of patches through my cylinder chambers on both .22 and CF revolvers prior to a shooting session.

On the .22s, both of which were "vintage" revolvers - I used toothpaste to polish the chambers and it worked well. The toothpaste is abrasive but not overly so - just enough to polish well. That took care of the sticking problem.

I had several sticky (tight) chambers on a Colt Army Special - .38 spl. - that hung up once in a while and a good polishing took care of that.
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