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Old July 22, 2013, 10:20 PM   #1
baddarryl
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At what point do you draw?

I got myself in a situation a few weeks back where I realized I could have been had. A gentleman approached me asking for money on the passenger side while I was parked eating lunch on the wrong side of the tracks. He was pleasant enough and I was able to dispatch him politely.

Upon leaving I realized so many mistakes I made:
1. I never saw the guy come up.
2. My pistol was in the center console and so not immediately available.
3. Should I have just told him to bug off and get away from my truck off the bat?
4. What would I do had he refused, but was not threatening entry?
5. If he did threaten entry my pistol in the console would have taken an extra move to draw.

Food for thought.

Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; July 23, 2013 at 03:37 PM.
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Old July 22, 2013, 10:53 PM   #2
Glockstar .40
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at what point do you draw?

only point at what you want to destroy and only draw when there's no other option.
sounds like you handled it well.

might want to let it be a reminder to keep the firearm on you rather then in the console
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Old July 22, 2013, 11:27 PM   #3
redhologram
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Definitely a good reminder to, when legally possible, keep your gun on your body.
Situation awareness is a good thing to always have.
Not putting yourself in less than ideal environments is a good idea, when avoidable. (eating lunch on wrong side of the tracks... not sure why you were there, and since you knew you were there, definitely needed to be more aware of your surroundings).
I will not draw until I am prepared to use my weapon. I will however, make sure I have unobstructed, quick and easy access to it.
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Old July 22, 2013, 11:56 PM   #4
Bartholomew Roberts
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Quote:
3. Should I have just told him to bug off and get away from my truck off the bat?
I think that unless you think you have someone who is liable to take courtesy as a sign of weakness and be encouraged more, being polite is a good strategy. Sometimes the right mix of courtesy and confidence can be very powerful in deterring even those who aren't so nice. That can be especially true in areas where anything perceived as "disrespect" can make someone feel like they have to fight or be perceived as weak themselves.

Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; July 23, 2013 at 03:39 PM.
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Old July 23, 2013, 12:13 AM   #5
BuckRub
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Don't agree 100% of those who say only to pull it when wanting to destroy. If I feel the need to pull it I have no problem there then we'll go to using it or other party changed mind and I feel now I don't have to destroy just take the other avenue. As a police officer I'm glad I don't shoot every time I have to pull it out or either point at someone ! Situational awareness is a good thing and did you have to be on wrong side of tracks? But sometimes we do, be aware, keep pistol in a better location such as the need arises
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Old July 23, 2013, 03:14 AM   #6
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One time I was in the car in a parking lot with my sleeping 6 month old son while my wife was in the store shopping. I was on the phone with my step-mom having a serious conversation about my dad's poor health condition.

While this was going on some shirtless guy - drunk/stoned or pretending to be - pressed himself against the closed window right next to me. He was trying to signal that he was hungry (I suppose) but I was not going to cut short my conversation for him.

From the time he started towards my car I put my hand in my bag and had my handgun ready to draw in case he started doing more than being a nusance. After a few minutes of ignoring him he took the hint and wandered off.

I made it as clear as possible - given his unknown mental state - that he was not getting a reaction from me even though he was literally inches away from me on the other side of the glass.
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Old July 23, 2013, 06:46 AM   #7
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Panhandlers and me get along just fine, I always carry extra change for them. I don't give to a myriad of charity organizations, but I do give to street folk who are struggling to survive. Lotta of them are vets too.

There but for the grace of God go I.

A CCW should always be on the body. An IWB/OWB strongside can be a problem because of the seatbelt. Shoulder holster or cross-draw ... better.

I draw when I know my life is under deadly threat.


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Old July 23, 2013, 08:20 AM   #8
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Retrieving a firearm from a position of concealment to one of visibility without a legal justification can be not only grounds for revocation of your CHL, but prosecuted as assault (brandishing) if it is done in such a way as to make anyone else feel threatened.
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Old July 23, 2013, 09:03 AM   #9
kraigwy
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Best defense in this situation is your gas pedal.

If things go south, gun it (pardon the pun)
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Old July 23, 2013, 09:36 AM   #10
Seaman
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"...while I was parked eating lunch on the wrong side of the tracks."

"Best defense in this situation is your gas pedal....gun it..."

Wouldn't work in my case, I drive a 1948 Chevy (original 1948 configuration, floor switch ignition, standard transmisssion, etc...a slow runner)... so if under deadly threat, would have to draw my gat and "gun it" the old fashioned way.

Best to you
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Old July 23, 2013, 09:56 AM   #11
40-82
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Keeping track of your surroundings from a seat in a parked car is an inherently difficult proposition, not impossible just awkward. When someone approaches your position in a parked car from your blind side, it is not necessarily a threat, but definitely an action to be explained. Sitting in a parked vehicle is to be avoided, especially when distracted.
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Old July 23, 2013, 10:12 AM   #12
deepcreek
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Sitting in parked cars leaves you at a grave disadvantage.

If I was carrying and I walked up to a car to ask a question and someone pulled out a gun(threatened my life) ? I would probably step behind them on the side and fill them full of bullets from relative safety.

If you want to scare people from your car there is probably less dangerous methods.
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Old July 23, 2013, 10:33 AM   #13
Grant D
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I eat my lunch in my truck every day listening to Rush.

I keep the windows up, and doors locked, with the truck running, and A/C on (it's hot here)

I have a wooden shotgun shell case on the seat that I use for a console,and that's where I put my pistol when I eat.
It's a lot more accessable that way than on my hip.
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Old July 23, 2013, 01:11 PM   #14
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartholomew Roberts
...being polite is a good strategy. Sometimes the right mix of courtesy and confidence can be very powerful in deterring even those who aren't so nice...
An excellent point. For a variety of reasons going through life quick to resort to rudeness has long term disadvantages and really isn't necessary. It is just not a good way to live.

Being polite doesn't necessarily mean dropping your guard or lowering your level of situational awareness. But in that context one might want to reflect on the desirability of being able to promptly and effectively implement Plan B if necessary.
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Old July 23, 2013, 01:24 PM   #15
zukiphile
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraigwy
Best defense in this situation is your gas pedal.
Indeed.

The point of defense is to avoid or prevent the harm. Even the smallest and slowest cars are bigger and heavier than a man on foot and a better defensive tool than a firearm; it doesn't just give one an option of retreat -- it makes retreat the safest and most trouble free option.
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Old July 23, 2013, 02:32 PM   #16
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As with most of the responses, I am in full agreement that the gun should be on you whenever possible.

However, when it comes to drawing your gun, I use a few "test questions" knowing full well that if my gun ever comes out of its holster, it is because I am going to use it.

1. Is my life in imminent danger?

2. Am I about to receive great bodily harm?

If you answer yes to either of these questions, use your gun to DEFEND yourself. If your answer is no, leave it where it is keeping in mind that anytime you draw your weapon on another person, your life may change forever.
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Old July 23, 2013, 03:36 PM   #17
Levant
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Re: At what point do you draw?

Telling him to bug off would, most likely, have escalated the situation. If I had to eat in that type of situation my gun would be under my leg where I could easily reach it if needed.

But it sounds like a little kindness or respect was the right response to the situation.
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Old July 23, 2013, 04:15 PM   #18
Glenn E. Meyer
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I was with my uncle and Dad in a bad area of NYC (we were doing something mildly shady - another story). A class NY 'bum' came up to my uncle's window as he was driving. He asked for money. My uncle said - Go get a job and work for a living.

The bum then reached into his coat.

At that point - we all drew 44 magnums and shot him.
or
He beat us to the draw and killed us.
OR

He pulled out a big fish and wiped on the windshield and ran away.

- Should we have shot him? Or my father and me cracked up while Uncle stewed.
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Old July 23, 2013, 04:22 PM   #19
Deaf Smith
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To draw is not necessarily to shoot.

If you see it coming and want to have the gun in your hand early, draw discreetly and keep it beside you.

If you see they are going to move in a dangerous way, draw and tell them to stop.

Drawing does not = shooting. Having to shoot is maybe a subset of drawing the weapon but they are not the same.

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Old July 23, 2013, 05:25 PM   #20
Jammer Six
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"Why did you draw?"

"Because I was afraid for my life."

"Then why didn't you fire?"

Seaman has the answer I use most often: compassion and spare change.
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Old July 23, 2013, 05:49 PM   #21
BuckRub
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So you drew and didn't fire ? Yes because he stopped before he got to me after I aimed my pistol at him.


After he stopped - then you proceeded to shoot him 2 times ? Why did you shoot him ? Because when I draw I always shoot. Lol how do you feel this second scenario will end ?


Well I feared for my life and I shot him. Good you better hope to prove it without a shadow of doubt and better hope there is no witness down the road who state that state he stopped with hands up and you felt since you had to draw you have to destroy.
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Old July 23, 2013, 06:50 PM   #22
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Just speaking for myself, I would draw when I feel confident that my failure to do so would likely end in my death. That's when I am going to draw.
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Old July 23, 2013, 07:12 PM   #23
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Beat the bum to the punch with "Hey buddy, can you spare a dollar? Got any extra smokes? I just need a dollar to get on the bus."

I did that to one drunk who got so flustered at not being able to ask ME for money that he literally wet himself.
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Old July 23, 2013, 07:18 PM   #24
bt380
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Conceal carry in my state does not cover a loaded gun in the console. The only conceal carry I legally can do is carry on my person. You may want to check on your state. You could find your weapon confiscated, your license suspended, fined, your record dinged, or may be just a reminder.
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Old July 23, 2013, 08:07 PM   #25
BuckRub
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+1 as to what FireForged said.
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