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Old July 20, 2013, 07:53 PM   #1
Don'tkillbill
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Model 12 made in 1960

This my model 12 made in the 1960 1897XXX serial number

Its a nice looking gun and best of all its a takedown.



https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5DJ...it?usp=sharing

http://youtu.be/jgDwcJ74xSM
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Last edited by Don'tkillbill; July 20, 2013 at 08:02 PM.
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Old July 20, 2013, 08:19 PM   #2
Bake
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They are the "sweetest, smoothest, fastest, & coolest" pumps out there....
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Old July 20, 2013, 09:42 PM   #3
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The model 12 is a great pump, btw, they are all take downs.
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Old July 20, 2013, 10:29 PM   #4
Harry Paget Flashman
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Got a Model 12 last year at an auction cheap. Cheap because it has a repair on the barrel made with a weld. Didn't trust it enough to shoot it but I did fine a replacement barrel on gunbroker.com. I ended up getting one Model 12 for about the price of two. Nice piece though.



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Old July 20, 2013, 11:07 PM   #5
Crunchy Frog
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The Model 12 is one of the shotguns allowed in Wild Bunch Action Shooting. They are very nice and appear to be a little more durable than the 1897.
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Old July 21, 2013, 02:20 PM   #6
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The perfect repeater

Find a low mileage model 12, be happy for a long long time.

Do your homework with regard to finding a good one, loads of resources on the web to do so.

There are a ton of used Model 12s on the market. Winchester made over 2 million of them. Some are cheap, and some are stupid expensive. Not every Model 12 is "collectible"

A 1950's or 1960's plain jane Model 12 that has not been shot much will last at least a couple of lifetimes for the average shotgunner.

In fact as above with 26-28" barrel and a poly choke could be a guys only shotgun.
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Old July 21, 2013, 06:23 PM   #7
Don'tkillbill
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Harry as usual you are the man! Nice shotgun sir!

Is it hard to switch barrels? LIke I said I want a 20 " for shooting things at the range. We have a shoot every year and might do it every month shooting steel with our shotguns after we shoot PPC. A revolver and a model 12 I need mirror glass and could be in a squad car on CHIPS.

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Old July 22, 2013, 08:21 AM   #8
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I got a 1946 Model 12 that my grandpa had all done up, it sits in the safe. It is a sweet looking gun.
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Old July 22, 2013, 08:09 PM   #9
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Awesomeness! I just inherited my grandfather's Model 12 (1959 from what I could tell). It's an extremely durable and intuitive model, and I also love the ability to break it down for smaller storage options. I've seen these things in gun stores selling from $150 to $600 depending on the year and the condition. Of course, I'm not selling mine ever. I plan to pass it down to many more generations.
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Old July 23, 2013, 05:26 AM   #10
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Why don't we make a Model 12 thread and post some pictures.
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Old July 23, 2013, 06:08 AM   #11
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I have a model 12 as well, I have had it for 52 years, my brother in law bought it for me brand new from Dick Fisher's Sporting Goods. I believe he paid $120.00 back then. I love it and still do after all these years it is my favorite shotgun.
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Old July 23, 2013, 08:35 AM   #12
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Been trying to get one for a few years, almost had a deal for a 16ga, but it fell through.
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Old July 26, 2013, 12:06 PM   #13
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Dad's Model 12. 16 gauge, Bishop stock, poly choke. Made in 1958.



My son owns it now, part of his inheritance. Each of my sons got one of Dad's guns.
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Old July 26, 2013, 12:51 PM   #14
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My screen name should say it all

I have a 1958 that was converted (by a previous owner) into a "riot" configuration, barrel cut off at 20".

Smooth. As. Silk.

Just a stunning shotgun, a coveted piece of engineering and craftsmanship. They really don't "make em' like they used to". I adore mine, it's about due for a reblueing as some of the metal around the magazine base is in the white and developing a rust patina. I wouldn't trade mine for anything. Great gun.
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Old July 27, 2013, 10:52 PM   #15
Don'tkillbill
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They do have that unique look long and lean with a nice curve up top. Wait a minute I think I like them too much
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Old July 28, 2013, 02:25 AM   #16
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Oh yeah they do. Classic. Classic. Classic.

The ol' babe serves as primary HD for me loaded with no. 1 buckshot. It worked very well for those brave souls on Iwo, Okinawa, and so many other blood stained islands in the pacific campaign.

It sure as hell works for me. You can keep you KSG and UTS-15 and whatever tactical tupperware 12 gauge you can draw up on your CAD program.

I will keep my Winchester Model 12.

You can come and take it if you please, but bring a shovel to dig through all the smoking spent hulls. And also bring lots, and lots, of body bags for anyone who helps you.
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Old July 28, 2013, 07:28 PM   #17
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Pawpaw that's a really nice example of a 12. I'll go for duck with mine this year with one of those lead replacement shells.
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Old August 16, 2013, 10:57 AM   #18
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The model 12 is one of the all time great pump shotguns. Not as slick feeling as the later designed twin action bar pumps, it is nevertheless, hell for stout, works reliably and dependably in the worst conditions and has a long proven history.

A couple of things you need to know about the Model 12, first, never, ever shoot steel shot in a factory original barrel!!!!!!

Second, most model 12s do NOT have a disconnector. (only the last production versions have them, so I've heard. I know for a fact that the early guns do not. What this means is that if you are holding the trigger back when you close the gun, it WILL FIRE!!!

Third, you have to give the forend a little push forward, after firing, to get the action to unlock. Usually, holding the forend firmly during recoil takes care of this. But if not, just push forward, then back to open the action after firing.

Fourth, expect the gun to pattern extra tightly with regular modern ammunition. Model 12s were choked to provide the rated pattern percentages with the old style shotgun shells. Roll crimp paper shells with card wads over the shot, and fiber wads underneath. No shot cup. Modern plastic shells with their star crimps and shot cups produce much tighter patterns than the older type shells, so less choke is needed in the barrel to get the needed percentage, which means the old guns have tighter bores than guns made today.

My Grandfather's rule of thumb for checking a full choke 12ga was to balance a dime in the muzzle. If the dime didn't fall through, the gun was choked tight enough to give full choke patterns. Put a dime in the muzzle of any modern full choke gun, and watch it fall right through.

This tighter bore constriction than what is used today means that you should never, ever, shoot steel shot through the gun. A bulged barrel is very likely if you do!

Quote:
Is it hard to switch barrels? LIke I said I want a 20 " for shooting things at the range.
It is a job for a qualified gunsmith to switch the barrel. The barrel is screwed into the barrel extension, which attached to the receiver with an interrupted thread.

Changing the barrel assembly (everything in front of the receiver) is fairly simple.

First, push the large pin at the end of the magazine tube out (this pin is captive, does not come all the way out). Then, using the large pin as a lever, rotate the magazine tube 1/4 turn, and pull it forward. (note that on guns where it isn't tightened correctly the barrel clamp may come loose. if it does, its not a big deal, we'll put it back in place and tighten the screw when we put the gun back together)

slide the forend forward until the action bar clears the receiver extension, then rotate the receiver extension 1/4 turn and remover it. The gun is now broken down for storage. Assemble in reverse order.

On a gun in good shape, it only takes a few seconds to break it down. Putting it back together takes a few seconds longer, but its still pretty quick.

If you want to make a Model 12 into a quick change barrel gun, you need to swap everything in front of the receiver. Barrel, extension, mag tube, forend, (all of it assembled as a unit). Swapping assemblies is pretty quick, but more complicated than guns designed decades later.

Bear in mind that Winchester did not sell the barrel assemblies as regular spare, or extra parts. Get you hands on a set today, and what you have is the parts that came off some other gun. And you should have the headspace on your receiver checked if you swap the barrel assemblies. Unlike more recent designs with fixed headspace quick change barrels, the Model 12 can be adjusted (by a competent gunsmith) allowing the gun to last virtually forever. But this means that the barrel group from one gun might not have the proper headspace on another receiver.

Also be aware that 20" riot barrels do exist, but are very rare, and expensive. And they are normally only found on the collectable riot guns, not as parts. However, there are short barrels out there, ones made by cutting off longer barrels. Sometimes the bead was replaced, sometimes not.

My 16th birthday present, 40 some years ago, was a 30" full choke Model 12, made in the 1920s. Love that gun! When I got the bug for a riot length gun, I wound up buying another model 12 at a gunshow, one that someone had already cut down. I still have both guns, they aren't going anywhere!
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Old August 16, 2013, 08:30 PM   #19
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I gave up on my O/U and switched to a 1941 Win model 12 trap. I believe it still has the original forend but someone swappe out the butt stock for a field model. I was able to purchase it cheap, and ordered a replacement butt stock with adjustable comb.
This gun is a clay breaking machine. I shot more 25's with it in a couple months than I ever shot with my old O/U.

I made up my Model 12 extra heavy, I filled the stock bolt hole with #8 shot, and added 4 empties filled with #8 in the mag tube. I can still put at least one in the mag for doubles.
I love this gun. If there is a flaw with the model 12 for trap it is a little light and will hammer a guy after a few rounds of trap.

I shoot 1 oz trap loads, the gun is a total pussycat, thanks to that extra weight and a good pad.
I shall never part with this gun........nothing handles like a model 12, except perhaps an SX-1 which is on my list. They are also filled with original Winchester awesomeness.
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Old August 17, 2013, 06:31 AM   #20
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44 thanks for your post it was interesting to read.
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Old August 18, 2013, 10:24 AM   #21
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I've got a 1925 with a full choke and that thing shoots like a rifle, I mean it has a TIGHT pattern. It's re-blued which I don't mind but I hate the non-original wood. I need to do something about that.
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Old August 19, 2013, 03:13 PM   #22
Don'tkillbill
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I heard that the full chokes on the older ones are tight. An guy I shoot with says they don't make'em like they use to.
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Old August 20, 2013, 11:22 AM   #23
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He's right, they don't make them the way they used to.

Prior to the introduction of the modern plastic shot column (in the 1950s) the pellets on the outside edge of the shot column were in contact with the barrel on the way out. This produced flat spots on the pellets (lead rubbing on steel), making the pellets out of round, and they would tend to fly "away" from the rest of the shot column.

Since shotguns are rated for their choke on the percentage of pellets that hit within a 30" circle at 40yds (full choke being 70%) to deliver the needed percentage for full choke inspite of the flyers, the barrels were choked "tight" (smaller bore diameter, to squeeze the shot column tighter).

With the introduction of plastic shot cups, shot was no longer deformed by the barrel, flew straighter, and yielded a higher percentage of hits inside that circle. Full choke guns shooting the "new" shells pattern extra full or higher. Modified choke guns were delivering full choke percentages, and so on.

SO, when plastic shot cups (and their shells) became the industry standard, the amount of choke needed in the barrels was, overall, reduced.

A full choke barrel, made in 1970- has a measurably larger bore at the muzzle than a full choke gun made in 1930. See my previous post.
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Old August 20, 2013, 08:57 PM   #24
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I just got schooled on chokes. Better than the alternative
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Old September 9, 2013, 09:25 PM   #25
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Would that be choked on school??.............many of us children of the 60-70s did that!
What perhaps has not been talked about in this thread is the way a Model 12 "just fits"
For me picking up an off the shelf standard model 12 just feels like a natural extension of....... me!
Next on my Winchester list is an SX-1, have heard they fit and feel like a Model 12. Have handled a couple, but have yet to shoot one.
Had my eye on a inexpensive SX-1, but found an LC Smith single barrel trap I just had to have.
But I do plan on an SX-1 too. I'm just too much of a clutz to shoot doubles with a pump, guess I should try tho. Maybe next week.
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