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Old July 22, 2013, 11:51 AM   #1
weblance
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Silencing a Revolver

I have a SilencerCo SS Sparrow. In my quest to have a variety of host pistols, I have pretty much all the autoloaders threaded now that make me happy. I have a blued 4.5" Ruger Single Six that I think would be fun to silence. I have read many comments that because of the barrel/cylinder gap, that trying to silence a revolver is a waste of time. My observation has been that when shooting a silenced autoloader, that just as much flame, and blast comes out of the ejection port, as comes out of the B/C gap of an unsilenced revolver. There doesnt seem to be much noise from the ejection port on the silenced autoloader. Why would the B/C gap of a revolver be any different?
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Old July 22, 2013, 01:45 PM   #2
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The gap on an autoloader opens AFTER the bullet leaves the barrel. The gap on a revolver is constantly open. Suppressing a standard revolver is not going to be very efficient.

You're better off buying a gas seal revolver like the M1895 Nagant which sell for around $200 and threading that barrel, if you want a suppressed revolver.
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Old July 22, 2013, 02:06 PM   #3
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There was a device for silencing revolvers.
It completely encased the frame, cylinder and rear of the barrel.
In addition to the suppressor, of course.
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Old July 22, 2013, 08:41 PM   #4
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Quote:
My observation has been that when shooting a silenced autoloader, that just as much flame, and blast comes out of the ejection port, as comes out of the B/C gap of an unsilenced revolver. There doesnt seem to be much noise from the ejection port on the silenced autoloader. Why would the B/C gap of a revolver be any different?
I'm not sure what you are shooting but that is not my experience at all. I get additional gas and some noise out of gas operated semi-auto rifles. I shot a suppresed Makarov a while back and it had lots of ejection port noise. A 10/22 shooting Aguilla SSS also gave me lots of pop probably due to the short shell case uncovering the chamber quicker than the usual sized 22lr.

Keep in mind that a revolver is spewing gases out of the gap from the time the bullet enters the barrel until the gases finish escaping. This is much different than ejection port or gas operated action noise.
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Old July 23, 2013, 08:43 AM   #5
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I would love to see some actual numbers on a test of a silenced revolver. I don't doubt it would not be as effective as an auto, but if the difference were as drastic as many make it out to be I don't think revolvers would work that well to begin with. What is the generally accepted functional min gap? .005? I have to believe a revolver with that gap would be much quieter AND sound much different than an unsuppressed gun. For most people shooting on the property, convincing the neighbors you are building a rabbit hutch with a nail gun instead of shooting is every bit as important as hearing protection.
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Old July 23, 2013, 09:44 AM   #6
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I believe that a silencer on a revolver would be more effective than people are allowing credit. Lets' not forget that on AR's, gas escapes through the gas tube; on AK's, gas punches the piston; on steyr GB's (threaded barrel for silencer optional) the barrel was ported for the gas brake. It's not like any gu

The gap on most good revolvers is quite small. I'd bet that a silencer is still quite effective on revolvers.
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Old July 23, 2013, 10:12 AM   #7
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Keep in mind that on a DI AR-15 the gas is escaping out of the chamber area and is cool enough that it's not making much noise. But on an AK, the gas is escaping in front of the piston and is much hotter and louder, which is one of the reasons suppressing an AK sucks.
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Old July 23, 2013, 05:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
johnwilliamson062 posted
I would love to see some actual numbers on a test of a silenced revolver. I don't doubt it would not be as effective as an auto, but if the difference were as drastic as many make it out to be I don't think revolvers would work that well to begin with. What is the generally accepted functional min gap? .005? I have to believe a revolver with that gap would be much quieter AND sound much different than an unsuppressed gun.
Here's something I don't think anyone has pointed out: A suppressed revolver will have a lot more gas escaping from the cylinder/barrel gap then the same gun without the suppressor.

Suppressors produce back-pressure that sends hot, loud gasses back through the chamber. On a properly-tuned semi-auto, the breech is closed long enough for the bullet to get out of the barrel and the pressure to drop before the action opens up. But on a normal revolver, the gap is always open and adding a suppressor will allow even more hot gases to escape than without one.

I don't have any personal experience with suppressing revolvers, but from what I know about suppressors I would think that a suppressed revolver would be a little quieter than unsuppressed, but still significantly louder than a suppressed semi-auto and not at all hearing safe. After all, there's probably a reason that every suppressed revolver setup I've heard of attempts to close or block the cyclinder/barrel gap in some way.
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Old July 23, 2013, 05:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Suppressors produce back-pressure
So imagine this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Magnum44_900pix.jpg

...with the added back pressure of a suppressor. It's not going to be very efficient and reducing the sound of the shot.
That's not to say that a suppressor on a revolver wont reduce the decibel level, it's just not going to be a large amount. And it's not going to be close to the reduction you get with a gas seal revolver.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvF4yurWSc0
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Old July 24, 2013, 01:45 AM   #10
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Get a Nagant Revolver.

On the Nagant, the cylendar moves forward when the trigger is pulled/hammer pulled back. The round (7.65 Nagant) uses a bullet that actually rests below the lip of the brass (one of you reloaders can correct my terminology), creating a sealed chamber. AFAIK, it is the only revolver that can realistically use a silencer.
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Old July 24, 2013, 08:41 AM   #11
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It's been done

Here's a youtube search of silenced nagant. Lots of results. I seem to recall a while back that in the 40's some german special warfare division made a custom silenced revolver as well.

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...ilenced+nagant
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Old July 24, 2013, 09:36 AM   #12
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The Russians also have the OTs-38 "Vorchun"/"Croaker", a revolver designed by Igor Stechkin (the same guy who designed the APS machine pistol); this uses 7.62 SP-4 internally-silenced ammunition with a sliding cup inside the case to stop gasses from escaping to the outside atmosphere, and will penetrate a helmet or CRISAT target from 15 metres. These fire from the bottom chamber in the cylinder, and usually have a laser sight built into a tube where the barrel would normally be.





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Old July 24, 2013, 11:03 AM   #13
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Quote:
The Russians also have the OTs-38 "Vorchun"/"Croaker", a revolver designed by Igor Stechkin (the same guy who designed the APS machine pistol); this uses 7.62 SP-4 internally-silenced ammunition with a sliding cup inside the case to stop gasses from escaping to the outside atmosphere, and will penetrate a helmet or CRISAT target from 15 metres. These fire from the bottom chamber in the cylinder, and usually have a laser sight built into a tube where the barrel would normally be.
Interesting. That looks like the wheelgun equivalent of the PSS, which I believe uses the same cartridge. It's a semi auto though. Very compact and quiet.

Quote:
The PSS was developed to give Soviet special forces and secret police an almost completely silent option for covert operations such as reconnaissance and assassinations. The weapon uses a unique cartridge with an internal piston to achieve this end. Otherwise, it is a fairly simple double action pistol. Few details are known about the pistol's performance, as only a few have entered western hands.

The PSS uses a specially developed 7.62x42mm necked round SP-4 (СП-4).[1] The cartridge contains an internal piston and a propelling charge, with the stem of the piston against the base of the bullet. On firing, the piston delivers enough impulse to project the bullet from the barrel to an effective range of 25 meters. The piston then seals the cartridge neck, preventing noise, smoke, or blast from escaping the barrel.[2]
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Old July 24, 2013, 11:23 AM   #14
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Shhh! Don't tell anyone but I think Gospodin Stechkin stole some of that design from a fellow named Shattuck.

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Old July 24, 2013, 01:05 PM   #15
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I was just talking to a co-worker of mine who is both a long-time revolver enthusiast and a long-time suppressor enthusiast. While he agrees that a suppressed revolver will be a little bit quieter overall, he thinks it will actually be louder from the shooter's perspective.

He likened it to shooting with a muzzle break: Just as a muzzle break shoots gasses to the side and upwards making the gun sound louder to the shooter, a suppressed revolver would send even more hot, loud gas sideways out of the cylinder/barrel gap making it sound louder to the shooter than it does unsuppressed.

Now I really want to try this! I just need to find a cheap revolver to thread and then put my 9mm suppressor on it.
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Old July 24, 2013, 03:30 PM   #16
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Really interesting wheelies!
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Old July 25, 2013, 07:03 PM   #17
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Apparently Stechkin discovered the QSPR, which saw limited use in Vietnam.

OF course, like Kalashnikov, he could have invented it all on his own....
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Old July 26, 2013, 05:53 AM   #18
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Actually, the Russians had this "silent cartridge" technology a long time before the QSPR; in the mid-1950s, Stechkin had designed the TKB-506 and TKB-506A "cigarette-case guns", chambered for an earlier 7.62x35mm SP-2 cartridge, which looks like a stretched 7.62 Tokarev cartridge.



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Old July 29, 2013, 11:34 AM   #19
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I believe it was Ruger that built a silenced revolver used the shroud that was previously mentioned. It was quite effective as a silenced weapon, but was quite a bit bulkier and a lot slower to reload.

A number of manufacturers have built silenced sem-autos with slide locks that prevent the slide from cycling, eliminating any possible residual pressure blast from the barrel and also eliminating the noise of the slide cycling and the casing being ejected.

A few days ago I found this illustration:

http://s124.photobucket.com/user/Sta...a/001.jpg.html

It shows the silencer that was used on the Model 1895 Nagant Gas Seal Revolver.
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Old July 29, 2013, 11:37 AM   #20
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Dang!

Just found this illustration showing another Nagant silencer...

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...Q&ved=0CAEQsCU
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Old July 30, 2013, 08:19 PM   #21
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A fellow I once knew who did a lot of work on silencers (suppressors) made a valid point. He said that the device didn't need to completely silence a gun, it only needed to make it sound not like a gun.

I fired guns with a couple of his silencers, though, and they really did silence the gun. To be more exact, they silenced the discharge of the cartridge; silencing the gun is another story. I fired an M3 SMG with a silencer and it was almost as loud as without the silencer because the bolt slap on that stamped receiver made a lot of noise. The racket would normally have been drowned out by the noise of the firing, but with the silencer in place, the bolt noise could be heard over 50 yards away. And it sounded (surprise!) just like a submachinegun firing.

The M3's and STEN's made for silencer use had lace-on pads to keep the action noise down. A British STEN with a silencer and cover made a noise like that of a CB Cap, so it sounded like a .22 CB cap submachinegun, not necessarily something that would be ignored.

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Old July 31, 2013, 08:02 PM   #22
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Yeah, except for 22lr the suppressors I have witnessed sound something like a nail gun. Close enough I think if I set up a range in my backyard and shot sub-sonics my neighbors might assume I was building something.
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Old August 2, 2013, 07:21 PM   #23
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John just a heads up subsonic .22 is darn near impossible to find at the moment. I found some 20gr aguilla that's quiet but not strong enough to cycle a semi auto
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Old August 2, 2013, 07:35 PM   #24
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The PSDR 3 was a silenced revolver.

http://oda141teamroom.files.wordpres.../11/psdr-3.jpg
Knights Armament made a silenced Ruger.

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Old August 4, 2013, 10:10 AM   #25
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I've seen that pic before. What I haven't seen is one of those guns or the results of a db test done on that gun.



Quote:
...He said that the device didn't need to completely silence a gun, it only needed to make it sound not like a gun.

...I fired an M3 SMG with a silencer and it was almost as loud as without the silencer because the bolt slap on that stamped receiver made a lot of noise. The racket would normally have been drowned out by the noise of the firing, but with the silencer in place, the bolt noise could be heard over 50 yards away. And it sounded (surprise!) just like a submachinegun firing...
Somewhere along the line people forgot that silencers are hearing protection. The idea that it must make it sound not like a gun is born from the idea that silencers are an assassin's tool. The impression of "what was that noise, it didn't sound like a gun" is a side effect of the decibel reduction. The incredibly quiet MP5SD makes that same machinegun chatter as the M3 mentioned earlier. Containing hot, rapidly expanding gasses will do noting for action noise. It will protect the hearing of the person firing the gun and the hearing of those around them.


So, to get back to the original topic; If revolvers were a good host for suppression, they would be sold with threaded barrels. Now aside from the old Nagant, that oddball revolver-carbine thing that was cobbled together by KAC and the Russian's silenced bullets, there just aren't to many more examples of suppressed revolvers. Silencers have been around for a century. After all that time silenced revolvers are little more than a curiosity. That must tell you something.
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