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Old July 15, 2013, 07:59 AM   #1
Skans
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If you were Zimmerman, what could you have done better?

We've watched the trial, heard the facts and listened to the verdict. Still, Zimmerman went through and will continue to go through an ordeal that will permanently alter his life, and likely not for the better.

So, my question is - if you see suspicious activity in your neighborhood (a neighborhood which had experienced a recent increase of break-ins), would you have done anything different than Zimmerman , before the Zimmermand-Martin incident? Has anyone said to themselves "Gee, I would have done the same thing Zimmermand did?" Do we take anything away from this incident, i.e. would you do anything different after watching the trial, and if so, what?
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Old July 15, 2013, 08:33 AM   #2
2damnold4this
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Not getting out of the vehicle to follow Martin on foot might have been a good idea.
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Old July 15, 2013, 08:41 AM   #3
eldermike
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How about open carry? M could eaisly outrun Z perhaps if M knew he had a gun he might still be alive?
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Old July 15, 2013, 08:45 AM   #4
csmsss
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Do we REALLY know enough about what did or did not happen to really form any educated opinions in this respect? About the only thing known with any specificity and certainty is that Zimmerman did exit his vehicle. But everything after that appears to remain in dispute.
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Old July 15, 2013, 10:05 AM   #5
Vanya
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No, we don't know enough.

The one thing we can say for certain is that neither Mr. Zimmerman nor Mr. Martin (if he in fact did so) should have engaged at all. Anyone who chooses to carry a firearm should be very clear that it's never a good idea to do anything while carrying that he/she would not do if unarmed. If you see someone acting "suspiciously," stay in the car, call the police, and be a good witness. Period, end of story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldermike
How about open carry? M could eaisly outrun Z perhaps if M knew he had a gun he might still be alive?
Intimidating people, which is what this suggestion amounts to, is NOT the purpose of open carry.
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Old July 15, 2013, 10:17 AM   #6
g.willikers
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We had a similar situation here in our neighborhood.
A security company was hired to cruise around looking for suspicious characters.
But they had instructions not to confront anyone, other than acknowledging them, with a wave, toot of the horn and such.
Just observe and report anything out of the ordinary to the police.
Following in their car was ok, as was checking houses known to be unoccupied.
There's no way the security folks could be expected to know everyone living in the neighborhood.
A nearly identical housing development across the main thoroughfare chose to install a gate instead.
Only to find out the obvious - fences can be jumped.
As it turned out, just being there and being seen was apparently enough to discourage would be burglars.
Especially if the burglars, having been spotted, lost motivation.
No one was ever actually caught in the act, but the burglaries stopped.
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Old July 15, 2013, 10:17 AM   #7
MLeake
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Vanya, this will be one of those times we don't fully agree.

In theory, the reason Zimmerman left the vehicle was because he could not see where Martin was going at that point, if he had stayed in the vehicle.

Under some circumstances, then, it might be worth some risk to exit the vehicle, so I disagree with your stance if in a blanket sense. (For instance, if there have been several burglaries in your area, and you think you might actually have a burglar in sight, it might justify leaving the vehicle - but then it might not. The only suspicious activity for which I've exited my own vehicle was to intervene when some druggie looking dude punched a woman, then kicked her in the stomach when she was down - but they turned out to be a married, homeless couple and things got weird for a few moments... You may be on to something about staying in the vehicle...)

Now, where I think Zimmerman erred was in dismounting from his vehicle and then:

1) not maintaining adequate distance from Martin;

2) losing track of Martin when he returned to his vehicle (assuming things went as Zimmerman claimed);

3) not having an exit strategy in case things escalated;
3a) not maintaining positive awareness of exit lanes
3b) not having a less-than-lethal option on which to fall back
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Old July 15, 2013, 10:25 AM   #8
deepcreek
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I think Zimmerman made a very common mistake that many people that carry make. He had no in between options he had a gun and it seemed to be his only defense.

Zimmerman tried to take control of a situation/someone was challenged and only had a gun to fall back on.

I doubt I would get out to confront someone by myself. It is to easy to get tangled and trapped in a one on one fight with no way out.

I think Zimmerman was too cocky and Martian called his bluff, then Zimmerman had only one option in his limited bag of tricks.
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Old July 15, 2013, 10:28 AM   #9
Glenn E. Meyer
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Stay in the car and wait for the cops.

There was no other option in this situation.

Next, if you decide to carry a gun - go take serious training in the total circumstances of doing so - mindset, tactics, the law, the consequences - legal, social, psychological.

Having your buddy take you to the square range is trivial.

We are not going to replay the trial in this thread.

It's very simple.
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Old July 15, 2013, 10:43 AM   #10
ClydeFrog
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Hot wash....

There are a few "after action" lessons to be gleaned from the Sanford/Zimmerman event;

Leave it to the professionals: GZ & the board(residents) of the HOA should have got a crime prevention survey or hired a private security firm to inspect the property & suggest any improvements or crime prevention measures. Licensed, trained armed security officers(G in Florida) in marked patrol vehicles would act as a deterrent & be available to the residents in emergency situations.
Some tenants & residents are openly hostile or confrontational with private security, others are supportive & friendly. The HOA, to my knowledge, never took those steps & they had to pay for the error with a settlement offer to the Martin family.
Make it a hard target: The HOA could have set up security lights, CCTVs, signs, etc for crime prevention & security. They didnt need to turn the complex into a state prison but there are ways to deal with crime or asset protection/access control. Video systems or CCTV would have IDed exactly where Martin ran to or fled(hid) in that approx 4min period(mentioned by GZ's lawyer; Mark O'Mara). CCTVs are not perfect or fool-proof but they are better than nothing.
Plans Prevent Poor Performance: GZ(as well as many other armed citizens & license holders) lacked skill training & insight to deal with a serious threat. If you carry a loaded firearm, you owe it to yourself or your family members to know how to use it. You don't need a "warrior-spirit" or "Far East" mindset , but you do need to know what to do when things go down & "the balloon goes up"(a phrase by Jeff Cooper, the USMC veteran & pistol instructor). Classes or in-depth training may not be available or affordable but books/videos/etc are a good resource. You don't need to be a super-ninja or DEVGRU SEAL but you should have tactics/use of force training.
Get legal: George Zimmerman didn't ask for an atty & spoke openly with Sanford LE from the very start. Many lethal force instructors & even LE academy trainers say to not make statements or sign anything until you speak to a lawyer. GZ didn't request a atty or refuse to talk at the start.

I'll close by adding that GZ did have 2 small white lights with him(that was smart). The state prosecutor; Bernie De La Rhonda(check spelling) wanted to make that an issue but it fizzled out, .
To have a small knife or a 2nd weapon(OC spray, defense pen, impact weapon) is a good idea.

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Old July 15, 2013, 10:46 AM   #11
Pahoo
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The Legacy !!!

Quote:
"Gee, I would have done the same thing Zimmermand did?"
Hardly and although we will never know all the details, one thing I do know, is how this "Dance" started. Hopefully, this is a wake-up call for all of us. I totally agree with the verdict but there are no winners here and sadly, Mr. Zimmerman's life with be effected forever. The real crime, is what the media and elected officials, did to all of us and will continue to do so. .....


Be Safe !!!
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Old July 15, 2013, 10:49 AM   #12
MLeake
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Glenn, to date, I have not stayed in my vehicle / stayed in my safe haven for

- 2 house fires;

- 2 rollover vehicle accidents;

- 1 near drowning;

- 1 assault on a woman.

Some of us are not that good at staying in the car.

However, if one is the type who might leave the car, one should have some idea what one is doing.
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Old July 15, 2013, 10:50 AM   #13
Glenn E. Meyer
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I think we have said it all as to what Zimmerman should have done. The thread is not about fires.

I don't care to rehash the media, elected officials, etc.

Further posts will try to replay the trial depending on your view point.

Here's a good summary of doing that from Joe Scarborough - whom I usually don't like:
Quote:
Within seconds of Saturday night’s verdict exonerating George Zimmerman, liberals and conservatives scurried to their shabby political corners and began tweeting hyperbolic political pronouncements on a judicial process that few of them knew anything about.
Lights out.

Closed.
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