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Old July 13, 2013, 06:57 AM   #1
SaxonPig
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Cop guns...

For years I snapped up retired cop guns on the used market. Being a shooter and not a collector they fit my needs perfectly. The days of cheap surplus revolvers is pretty much over and I don't know if the political atmosphere will allow PDs to sell guns to the public in the future (and I would have zero interest in a Glock anyway) but I did my part in taking as many handguns as possible "off the streets."

A few examples. (Apparently limited to 6... but it tells me I have 7 when I only count 5. Oh well.)

Florida Highway Patrol.


Utah Highway Patrol.


Dealer would not reveal which agency used this Model 58.


This 38/44 came from a dealer who would not reveal the agency.


Wolfsburg PD. (You weren't expecting this were you? )

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Old July 13, 2013, 07:16 AM   #2
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S&W model 10 from the Royal Hong Kong Police:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...sc01358rp.jpg/
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Old July 13, 2013, 07:28 AM   #3
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That is a super nice collection. I only have two, a Model 64 (unk dept) and a Model 28 from the Anchorage PD. I know that because it was my issue service revolver I carried most of my 20 years on that department and they let me keep when I retired.

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Old July 13, 2013, 07:42 AM   #4
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The Oklahoma State Surplus online auction often lists handguns, usually S&W K & L frames, usually in lots averaging 3 to 5 guns or more. I think most are from the penal system. Only FFL holders are allowed to bid on them.
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Old July 13, 2013, 08:51 AM   #5
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Bavarian State Polizei:

Walther PP Super



Danish State Police:

Walther PP, no signalschriff, slide hand serial numbered to the frame and barrel.

[img][/img]
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Old July 13, 2013, 09:30 AM   #6
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nice guns.


*smiley counts as one pic btw. now i have 3 pictures.
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Old July 13, 2013, 01:33 PM   #7
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Here's my Webley Mk. IV from the Royal Hong Kong Police Department



Also, while I don't have pictures, my dad has a S&W M65 from an unknown department (stamped "T.P.D." on the left side of the frame under the cylinder) and my younger sister has a S&W M64 from the Ohio Department of Corrections.
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Old July 13, 2013, 06:52 PM   #8
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OK, no smiley. Thanks.

Couple more.

Both shipped in 1949. One to NYPD the other LAPD.




U.S. Customs.




Very ugly. My truck gun. From Atlanta PD.




Carbon County, Utah Sheriff's department.

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Old July 13, 2013, 07:24 PM   #9
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[IMG][/IMG]

1950 S&W M&P. NYPD
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Old July 13, 2013, 10:34 PM   #10
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You will still see police trade in firearms as the agencies will still deal with an FFL for the best trade in price and the FFL will deal them off for profit. One thing I have seen in my own agency, which is a complete traversy, is they no longer allow us to buy our firearms instead of trading in and they no longer allow retires to have their issued gun. The Dept. is worried about liability or whatever.
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Old July 14, 2013, 01:29 AM   #11
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Quote:
Couple more.

Both shipped in 1949. One to NYPD the other LAPD.
The history of that LAPD snubbie would be interesting. I don't know much about what they did in LA in 1949. But up until the mid 60s, everyone carried a 6" K-38 or M10. Uniforms and dicks all carried the same bbl.

If they indeed didn't issue snubs in 49, then this one might have some kind of very special history. Like the chief of police carried it etc.


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Old July 14, 2013, 07:13 PM   #12
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It was sold through the supplier for LAPD and LASO. I figured most likely an LAPD cop bought it for off duty carry. Could have been a sheriff's deputy. LAPD didn't allow 2" guns for off duty use?
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Old July 14, 2013, 08:12 PM   #13
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Sacramento, CA. P.D. 586 Commemorative




Sacramento P.D. Model 15 issue till 1986 when they switched to the Sig 9mm.

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Old July 14, 2013, 08:32 PM   #14
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One of my 4516-1's is a Tempe, AZ police trade-in (according to the markings).
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Old July 16, 2013, 04:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
SgtLumpy .....The history of that LAPD snubbie would be interesting. I don't know much about what they did in LA in 1949. But up until the mid 60s, everyone carried a 6" K-38 or M10. Uniforms and dicks all carried the same bbl.
So Joe Friday was violating department policy?
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Old July 16, 2013, 05:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
So Joe Friday was violating department policy?
He wasn't in that series... That was after the change over. But there was an earlier TV series and an earlier movie. I don't recall what kind of heat old Joe was packin' in the earlier shows. And I don't know how true to reality the earlier shows were. The later series was probably accurate.

And I don't know what LAPD did in the late 40s and 50s. They may have settled on the 6" some time in the 50s, then gone back to snubbies later in the 60s.

I was not with LAPD. I was with "another Major LE organization in Los Angeles". I'll see if I can find any of my old buddies from way back then who would know. Most of them aren't still alive.


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Old July 16, 2013, 05:44 PM   #17
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Here's a bit about LAPD guns.

From another forum, a poster mentions the line in "Onion Field" where the cop being kidnapped says to the bad guy "Could you throw our guns in the bushes? We have to buy them ourselves." Also mentioned is that one of the detectives had a S&W, one had a Colt. That was in 63, I think.


Also from another forum:
"Jack Harper, "LAPD – All Purpose Firepower", July, 1970 Guns & Ammo.

...Along with standardization of technique has come fairly complete standardization of duty revolvers. Unless an officer has had his 6-inch pistol for over two years, he must soon turn it in on a 4-inch job.
On the other end of the scale, no officer - even plainclothes detectives or those uniformed men who
are off-duty - may carry a 2-inch gun. Generally, this is to insure that an officer qualifies with, and carries, only one gun."


A buddy of mine, LAPD, had a cut down 4". That's a 6" bbl gun that the LAPD armorers cut down to 4". I think they did that in the early 70s. My buddy's gun was in 1980. It was also neutered, rendered dbl action only. I left LA before the switch over to autos happened for either the city or the county.


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Old July 16, 2013, 10:20 PM   #18
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Well, I am reasonably certain the CA gun was purchased by a SoCal cop, so maybe another city or... I have no idea. At this point we'll never know.
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Old July 17, 2013, 01:39 AM   #19
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Oh it might have indeed been LAPD. That would make the history sexier. It might have been for the chief or some other VIP. That would have made it Chief Parker or earlier. I think he was 1950.


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Old July 17, 2013, 07:01 AM   #20
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"So Joe Friday was violating department policy?"

No, he was not. Detectives and plain clothes officers were not required to carry the standard 6" barreled revolver on duty. It was issued to them, and they maintained it, as part of their dress blues uniform.

LAPD has always allowed officers considerable leeway in their choice of off duty and backup guns.

Officers who were promoted to detective grade or who were temporarily assigned to plain cloths details could carry their former backup gun as their primary weapon.

Additionally, when the first uniformed full-duty female officers were recruited to the LAPD in the late 1940s, they were not issued the standard 6" service revolver. They were issued a 2" barreled revolver that was carried in a special pocket that was sewn into the department issued should purse. Yep, a purse.

The show Adam-12, while a TV show, was shot in the 1960s and 1970s, and was made in close cooperation with the LAPD, whose advisors took great pains to ensure that the show was presented as accurately as possible given that it was such a potent PR opportunity.

Supposedly the advisors had a significant amount of control over over the script and production and could, and often did, demand changes.

OK, Jack Webb of Dragnet fame was the driver behind Adam 12, and Webb was a stickler for precision and accuracy in the portrayal of police activities.

In several of the episodes, the two main characters are put on temporary plain clothes assignments and are shown carrying S&W Model 36 revolvers as their only armament.

In at least one other show they are shown off duty carrying the same revolvers.
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Old July 17, 2013, 07:11 AM   #21
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Neat... IMFDB has the following still from Adam 12, which shows the two main characters in uniform, and also shows two detectives, at least one of whom is carrying a Detective Special in a reverse crossdraw holster.

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:AD12-CDS-1.jpg
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Old July 17, 2013, 08:22 AM   #22
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Quote:
Detectives and plain clothes officers were not required to carry the standard 6" barreled revolver on duty
I'm quite certain that LAPD dicks were required to carry the six incher in the early 60s. My LAPD buddies complained about it all the time. By the time that version of Dragnet (66?) and Adam-12 (later) were on the air, policy had changed.

But I'm just not sure what they did in 1949 or when the "all must carry six inch" policy came to be.


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Old July 17, 2013, 08:34 AM   #23
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Dragnet was first filmed in the late 1950s and then was revived into the 1970s.

Adam 12 was filmed in the late 1960s and up to around 1975.

Sometime in the middle to late 1970s there was a very good article in Guns and Ammo about the history and current status of firearms in the LAPD. I think I still have it, but I'll be damned if I know where it is in my house.

This (also from G&A) article from a few years ago talks about firearms from 1984 on, and sort of surveys revolvers, but it appears to be strictly from the perspective of a uniformed officer.

http://archives.gunsandammo.com/cont...ns-of-the-lapd


The only possible reason I can think of as to why LAPD might have required everyone to carry the long-barreled revolvers is because of the increase in violent drug crime in the 1960s. The 158-gr. LRN bullet was still standard issue into the 1970s, so it might have been a somewhat desperate attempt to increase stopping power without changing ammo or going to a more powerful gun/cartridge combination.
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Old July 17, 2013, 11:27 AM   #24
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The quintessential Sgt Friday -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjquGpmgwOo


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Old July 18, 2013, 12:16 PM   #25
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Thanks for that Sarge!
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