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Old July 27, 2013, 05:15 AM   #76
Old Stony
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Shootin' elephants in Wyo now? Or just big holes in paper?
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Old July 27, 2013, 09:16 AM   #77
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I made it for a man in Illinois who is a collector or large caliber rifles. He doesn't hunt anything. He just likes to shoot big guns.

I am the first man in over 150 years to make a 2 bore hunting rifle for sure, and it's probable that I am the 1st man ever to make one. This doesn't count wall guns or whaling guns.

My old apprentice Colin Stolzer is now making a living producing huge rifles and he has made more 2 bore than anyone in history. He and several other men have done quite a lot of research on the subject and one man has now written a book on it. According to them they have never found a true sporting rifle made in 2 bore anywhere in the world until I made the one in the picture.

It's totally impractical. But sure is a show stopper when he brings it to the range.

You must load it to such a slow velocity just so the gun doesn’t seriously injure or kill you with recoil.
If we look at the scale of powder to ball weight in muzzleloaders starting at about 58 caliber and working up to an 8 bore, we get a general idea of what is necessary to give velocities in the 1400 FPS range.

Scaling up at this rate the service charge for a 2 bore "should be" about 1100 grains of powder but the recoil of such a load would be injurious or maybe fatal.
Some light pack howitzers made in the 1840s were about 2 bore and they weigh about 350 pounds when set up on the carriage. Recoil propels them back about 28" to 3 feet when fired with 1100 grains of cannon powder.

This rifle weighs only 24 pounds so you can do the math on that and see why I am not exaggerating at all when I say such a load would not be something you would fire from your shoulder.

So this gun is used with a charge of 300-400 grains.. Still…..it’s more power than you might think. My customer tells me that with 300 grains of powder the balls exit 10” elm trees. A heavy steel target which easily stops a 458 Lott cold, was taken off the target burm and placed back behind it about 6 feet.
Too much gun!
But fun if you can handel it.
I can't.
The owner of that gun weighs well over 300 pounds and it back him up a LOT when he shoots it.
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Old July 27, 2013, 11:48 AM   #78
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Absolutely fascinating! Any way you could post some more pic's of it?
I shoot a mere .62 and have backed down to 90 grains of 2f...I can't even fathom 300 grains out of your cannon.
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Old July 27, 2013, 12:36 PM   #79
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Sure.
Here are some more pics.



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Old July 27, 2013, 12:40 PM   #80
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Some of these pics were taken before the metal was finished
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Old July 27, 2013, 04:57 PM   #81
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TRAILBOSS!!!!!
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Old July 27, 2013, 07:04 PM   #82
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Wyosmith, that is a true work of art, the gun is outstanding.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
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Old July 27, 2013, 07:48 PM   #83
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Problem solved. It went back to Shiloh a couple days ago to be rebarreled to 40-70SS. I also got a LimbSaver for my Browning 45-70. I'm getting too old for a rifle to beat the pi** out of me. I may even get a C. Sharps in 38-55 and put the fun back into shooting again instead of trying to bring down a T-Rex.
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Old July 27, 2013, 08:09 PM   #84
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A C. Sharps in 38-55...now I'm jealous...
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Old July 27, 2013, 09:44 PM   #85
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What a great thread!

Guns I wish I had.

Bruises I am glad I don't.
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Old July 27, 2013, 11:10 PM   #86
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Thanks Hunter.
I looked at your work too. VERY nice.
I used to build 1911s myself and I know the work that goes into one made to the high end. My sincere complements.
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Old July 28, 2013, 03:40 PM   #87
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Quote:
A C. Sharps in 38-55...now I'm jealous...
Yep, I'm fixin' to jump on it tomorrow...double set triggers and 28" barrel. Should shoot the knee caps off a fly.
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Old July 29, 2013, 06:39 PM   #88
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One of my favorite calibers...I think I'd opt for a low wall with set trigger. Last I knew they made a real nice single set...
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Old July 30, 2013, 09:02 PM   #89
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Quote:
The best I can do is the largest Limbsaver grind to fit, and then I do not grind it.
Nothing personal, but those pads are challenging to the eyes to put it politely
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Old July 31, 2013, 09:32 AM   #90
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Nothing personal, but those pads are challenging to the eyes to put it politely
I am making tools for men, not jewelry for women.
A women's stiletto high heel mounted on the rifle butt might look more sleek, but with so little area it could pierce your shoulder.

Do things that make sense, and fashion will catch up to you later.
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Old July 31, 2013, 02:20 PM   #91
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I put a slip on Limbsaver recoil pad on my Win 1886 in 45-70 due to the abusive recoil encountered while doing load development. Yesterday I shot 50 shots out of the gun in one afternoon and don't have a mark on me. I can't believe how much this recoil pad reduced the abuse the gun was giving out. The best part is that it slips right off and doesn't ruin the looks of the gun. Best money I ever spent in this area.
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Old August 1, 2013, 06:47 PM   #92
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Quote:
I put a slip on Limbsaver recoil pad on my Win 1886 in 45-70 due to the abusive recoil encountered while doing load development.
I recently bought one of those for my Browning BPCR in 45-70 and it fits like a glove. I haven't had the chance to try it out but from all indications it works. After what happened with the 45-90 I hope so. I also bought a Lead Sled just in case the LimbSaver don't work.
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Old August 3, 2013, 12:54 PM   #93
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Wyosmith: I wouldn't be surprised if yours was the first rifled 2 bore.

I've read of 2 bore and 1 bore being used on elephants in the 18th and early 19th centuries. Pretty sure those were smooth bore, not rifled.
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Old August 4, 2013, 09:20 AM   #94
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Buzzcook, if you truly have read of 2 bores being used in either smooth or rifled I and my fellow researchers would love to know where. This is NOT a "challenge" at all. I am 100% sincere in asking to please show me such documentation. We need it if the book is ever to be updated or edited to that effect.

After about 10 years of research I have yet to find one record of a 2 bore or 1 bore being made in anything but swivels guns and whaling arms.

In sporting rifles styles I have found a few records of 4 bores, but never anything larger.
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Old August 4, 2013, 12:04 PM   #95
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There is a midwest gunsmith that specializes in building faithful replicas of old big bore rifles. He built a 2 bore Jones underlever for a customer and posted his build on Youtube. Do a search. If looking for some history he might be able to provide some. Stolzer's Family Gunsmithing, I believe, is the name of his business.
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Old August 4, 2013, 12:05 PM   #96
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When you hear about the really big bore elephant guns, they always talk about NEVER shooting from the bench. They are made to shoot standing from sticks or a rest, and 4 rounds is a full day of shooting. Perhaps your rifle fits into this category.......
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Old August 4, 2013, 07:05 PM   #97
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_bore

Quote:
Among other weapons, I had an extraordinary rifle that carried a half-pound percussion shell; this instrument of torture to the hunter was not sufficiently heavy for the weight of the projectile: it only weighted twenty pounds, thus with a charge of ten drachms [270 grains] of powder and a HALF-POUND shell, the recoil was so terrific, that I spun around like a weathercock in a hurricane. I really dreaded my own rifle, although I have been accustomed to heavy charges of powder and severe recoils for some years. None of my men could fire it, and it was looked upon as a species of awe, and it was name "Jenna-El-Mootfah" (Child of a Cannon) by the Arabs, which being a far too long of a name for practice, I christened it the "Baby", and the scream of this "Baby" loaded with a half-pound shell was always fatal. It was too severe, and I seldom fired it, but it is a curious fact that I never shot a fire with that rifle without bagging. The entire practice, during several years, was confined to about twenty shots. I was afraid to use it, but now and then as it was absolutely necessary, it was cleaned after months of staying loaded. On such occasions my men had the gratification of firing it, and the explosion was always accompanied by two men falling on their backs (one having propped up the shooter) and the "Baby" flying some yards behind them. This rifle was made by Holland & Holland, of Bond Street, and I could highly recommend it for the Goliath of Gath, but not for the men of A.D. 1866.[1]
The Albert N'Yanza, Great Basin Of The Nile, 1866. By Sir Samuel White Baker. pp. 138

That isn't the reference I remember, just what I could find quickly on the interenet.

The one bore was probably a swivel of some sort. The reference I remember was just to the weight of the projectile not the gun itself.
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Old August 11, 2013, 07:34 PM   #98
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Ok, to address 2 things here;
#1 for Buzzcook. I am very familiar with Sir Samuel Bakers gun. It was just what you read. It's however a 4 bore shooting bullets (shells) not a 2 bore. I had a full set of piucs of it. It's now in the Tower of London museum in England.
#2 for Myfirends410. You are indeed correct about Colin Stolzer. He is a friend of mine and in fact, he's my old apprentice. I taught him the art of Gunsmithing for several years when he used to live in Riverton and later in Thermopolis Wyoming. But I made a 2 bore before he ever did. If anyone doubts that, ask him.
Here is his e-mail address. cstolzer338@bluevalley.net

He and I still talk about 4-5 times a week. He is now 100% on his own and his ski9lls no longer need my guidance. He's made all of the 2 bore rifles SPORTING we can find in existence except the 1st one, which I made for a man named Ken, in Illinois a few years ago, which is in the pictures above.
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Old August 12, 2013, 01:07 PM   #99
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Well, Wyo: you done taught him well. He does some lovely stuff and obviously is meticulous enough to do it RIGHT.
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Old August 12, 2013, 06:59 PM   #100
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I know Shoshoni well, I grew up in Riverton and My grandparents lived in Thermop. My Uncle lived there In Shoshoni for years. He just passed away last year. I grew up ice fishing on Boysen. Did you own the gun store there 25 years ago or so? we used to buy minnows there.
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