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Old July 9, 2013, 12:29 AM   #1
Machineguntony
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Two points: 1. TFL is awesome 2. I'm in a time warp

First, I want to say that this site is a fountain of knowledge and I appreciate everyone on here.

If you don't know already, I've been out of shooting or over a decade and recently got back in. When I was in, I was heavily and deeply in. I was a member of the NRA, I shot like 500-1000 rounds a week, I was a competitive shooter, I reloaded, etc.

I owned about 100 guns, but had to sell all but 5-10 guns (which were crap so no one wanted) because 1. I had to finance going back to grad school, and 2. The state I moved to was very restrictive of gun ownership. I was told pistols were not even allowed. So I sold everything, practically.

So for the last ten years, I knew nothing about developments in shooting, and I went to school on the east coast, where I hung around anti gun people, and they'd say stuff that was obviously ridiculous, like assault rifles are the most dangerous weapons because they can spray bullets,mneber run out of bullets, and hit everything, etc. I didn't argue because I was in their house/state and everyone and their culture was just anti-gun (many academic types are anti-gun, especially on the east coast).

Anyways I recently got back to shooting, and I am finding that I am in like a time warp. For example, today I decided to treat myself to a new 1911, and I go to Cabellas to look at a Kimber, and the guy behind the counter tells me, 'Dont buy a Kimber'. I said, I thought Kimbers were the Cats Meow of 1911s. He said, yeah, like ten years ago. Lol. He started to point out changes in quality and Materials and designs, etc. I was like, Wow, I must feel like I woke up and everything's upside down. ARs are sold cheap, the Assault weapons ban is no more, and Kimbers are crap? This is just so strange.

Anyways, I leave without buying anything because he tells me that the real good 1911 nowadays is a Springfield. What the hell?! I thought Springfields were crap, only slightly better than Taurus. I'm so behind.
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Old July 9, 2013, 01:33 AM   #2
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Kimbers aren't crap, they've just had a few issues with quality control over the years. More importantly, there are better 1911s for the same or less money; especially when you get to the higher-priced Kimbers. And yet it's amazing the sheer number of people who are convinced that Kimber is the end-all and be-all of 1911s.
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Old July 9, 2013, 01:39 AM   #3
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Quote:
Machineguntony posted
I thought Springfields were crap, only slightly better than Taurus. I'm so behind.
Yeah, Springfields are some of the best 1911s for the money in my opinion.
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Old July 9, 2013, 02:01 AM   #4
Machineguntony
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If Kimbers have had quality control issues over the years, doesn't that make the salesman right? He, in essence, said the same thing you said.

It's not good that guns have quality control issues, I wouldn't think.

What would you recommend that's a nice midrange 1911? When I say midrange, according to the price scales/categories I saw at Cabellas, I mean like $800-1000????
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Old July 9, 2013, 02:17 AM   #5
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Yeah, I agree, I just wouldn't say "Kimbers are crap"; besides the fact that there are plenty of halfway-decent Kimbers out there, it also tends to anger a lot of the people who are under the impression that Kimbers are THE 1911. (Luckily those people are easy to spot; the dead giveaway is that they NEVER refer to their gun as a "1911", they ALWAYS refer to it as a "Kimber".)

And I think the best low- to mid-range 1911 is the Springfield Range Officer, as long as you don't mind adjustable sights.
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Old July 9, 2013, 03:12 AM   #6
ljnowell
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800-1000? Springfield RO or a Sig. I have a Sig GSR Revolution and its a damn fine pistol.
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Old July 9, 2013, 04:26 AM   #7
IZinterrogator
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Re: Two points: 1. TFL is awesome 2. I'm in a time warp

$800 to $1000 can get you a Colt O1991 (base model series 80) or, if you're lucky enough to find one for that price, a Colt O1970A1CS (series 70 reproduction).
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Old July 9, 2013, 07:09 AM   #8
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"Kimber is the end-all and be-all of 1911s."
The sales reps and forums will catch up to reality again but then Kimbers won't be the bargain they are today...
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Old July 10, 2013, 07:57 AM   #9
ScotchMan
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The best $800-1000 1911 is the HK45.
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Old July 10, 2013, 08:02 AM   #10
TunnelRat
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Quote:
I didn't argue because I was in their house/state and everyone and their culture was just anti-gun (many academic types are anti-gun, especially on the east coast).
Woa hit the brakes there skippy. Now if you were in the state of MA (sorry to those that live there) yes it is rather anti-gun. But other states in the Northeast are actually very pro-gun, i.e. VT, NH, and Maine. Heck VT doesn't require a permit of ANY kind to carry openly or concealed. While other states are restricting gun rights NH's Senate just voted to keep stand your ground laws. And ME is just a gun loving state. Not trying to harp on you, but I get tired when this stereotype of the gun hating NE gets passed around.
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Old July 10, 2013, 12:18 PM   #11
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How can we make VT part of the South?
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Old July 10, 2013, 12:31 PM   #12
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MD used to be fairly reasonable but the current governor bought the whole Bloomberg anti-gun line* and we now have an AWB, 10 round magazine limit and a racist fingerprint/photograph law for buying a handgun.

Back on topic, I do not own, but have heard good things about, the Remington 1911 type pistols, and the price usually comes in at a bit under your $800 figure. They look to be very well made.

Jim
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Old July 10, 2013, 12:42 PM   #13
Grant D
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If your going to spend a grand...get a Colt.
I got a used Stainless Colt 1991 A1 for $600.00 out the door,
and a Stainless Springfield Champion Loaded for $650.00
There's plenty of good used ones out there looking for homes.
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Old July 10, 2013, 12:58 PM   #14
Tucker 1371
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Got my Colt LNIB for $900 plus FFL transfer and so far it's been better than any 1911 I've ever shot, except my buddies grandfathers Colt that he customized himself (trigger feed ramp etc). The trigger could be a tad lighter but other than that it's a tank.
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Old July 10, 2013, 02:34 PM   #15
Machineguntony
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Wow, that's a beautiful 1911.

I really like the grips. Just gorgeous.

My girlfriend would say it's gun ****.
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Old July 10, 2013, 02:45 PM   #16
arch308
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I love my Kimber!

That being said I think the Ruger 1911s are really good guns for the price and are backed 100% by Ruger, an American owned and operated company. Unlike Springfields they are 100% made in the USA.

I had a Remington 1911 but it was too finicky about ammo so I sold it.
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Old July 10, 2013, 03:44 PM   #17
Kreyzhorse
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Kimber isn't crap but they have had their issues. When I bought my 1911, I saw some Kimbers direct from the distributor with rust on their barrels and was told that was a common issue. They also sold well so take that for what it's worth.

Springfield really does make some of the best 1911s around from low end to top end guns. They also have some of the best customer service and stand behind their guns if you have any problems.
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Old July 10, 2013, 05:07 PM   #18
thump_rrr
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If you want a 1911 that is close in function to how John Moses Browning intended it to be you need to stay away from 80 series Colts due to their firing pin blocks which affect trigger feel. Kimber uses a Swartz safety that also affects trigger feel although in a different way.
Many people like Sig 1911's but they do not use a traditional internal extractor as did the original design.

This brings is back to Springfield Armory which makes a 1911 which is quite close to what JMB designed and for a few dollars can have the mainspring housing and spring swapped with a unit which will be as close to JMB's original design as possible.

The Range Officer is one model which is quite a bargain for what you get.


Mine is a Stainless Loaded personalized with a Wilson Combat extended mag release and an S&A magwell.
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Old July 10, 2013, 05:29 PM   #19
Jim Watson
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If you are buying machine guns as speculative investments, just splurge and get a high end pistol. Wilson is good.
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Old July 10, 2013, 05:32 PM   #20
g.willikers
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A word for Springfield.
They have sponsored competition and competition shooters for a long time.
That has to kind of rub off on the place.
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Old July 11, 2013, 01:39 AM   #21
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I just picked up a Springfield Loaded Target PI9134LP 9mm recently. Midrange price tag. It's strictly a range / nightstand gun due to its size, but I wanted a 1911 in a 9mm that I could shoot for extended periods of time and not wear myself out like the .45's do to me. (I have RA)


A bit on the higher end and in .45, Wilson Combat. Mostly a safe queen.
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Old July 11, 2013, 02:20 PM   #22
Machineguntony
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Jim, Im buying machine guns, yes, but I don't believe in wasting money. I just don't see the point of spending 1500 on a 1911 when the midrange 800-1000 will be sufficient.

I mean, I'll spend $30,000 on an MP5, but then complain to my gun shop about AR comp powder being $3 more expensive than other places on the Internet. Or I'll try and get the dealer to knock $20 off the price of a handgun. That's just how I roll.
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Old July 11, 2013, 03:29 PM   #23
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how can we make vt part of the south?
a freaking men!
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Old July 11, 2013, 03:54 PM   #24
BigJimP
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I don't think Kimber is a terrible gun...but they have a wide range of models ( and prices ) ....with Kimbers in their custom shop, like Gold Combat Stainless II listing for over $ 2,000....and many of their entry level guns around $ 900 - $ 1,000....

In my opinion --- $ 1,000 is still entry level guns....and I think you might find a Kimber, Springfield or Colt --- in that general price range to be ok.

Yes, Kimber has some issues ...but most of it is with triggers. If you can dry fire a gun at your local dealer...then you can evaluate the trigger ( if it has some creep, or slack, or a hitch as it breaks ...or breaks at over 4 lbs...sometimes way over, like 6 lbs....then look for a different gun )....they're an assembly line gun ( they are not a gun from Wilson Combat, Ed Brown or Nighthawk ..or even Les Baer .....where prices start in the $ 2,500 range ...and go up over $5,000...)...from companies like Wilson Combat ( at around $ 3,500 ) you'll get a spectacular gun, great trigger to the spec you order, great fit and finish and a lifetime warranty...but you're not going to find that in the $1,000 price range....times have changed.

If you find a Kimber, Springfield, Colt, etc ....used that you like / then consider scrapping all of the trigger components ....and replacing them with Wilson parts ..../ its sad that you might have to do that with a new gun too...even at $1,000 .....but times have changed..../ and unless you're prepared to talk to Wilson or Ed Brown...and move up to that price level...you're going to have to deal with guns that come off an assembly line ....that are never touched by a "gunsmith"....
-------------
Even the guns out of Kimbers custom shop ....even at $ 2,000...might need some cleanup ...

Not even Kimbers custom shop guns .....would put them in the top 10 mfg's of 1911's....especially compared to Wilson Combat, Ed Brown and Nighthawk......maybe Les Baer a distant 4th in my view... ( 5 - 10 would be a real argument ....Springfield, Sig, Colt, Kimber, etc...)....in my view.
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Old July 11, 2013, 07:44 PM   #25
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For under a thousand,

1. Colt
2. Springfield Range Officer or Loaded model (possibly at this price) or Ruger 1911 or STI Spartan.

Not a Kimber fan by YMMV.
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