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Old July 8, 2013, 10:56 PM   #1
damo450
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Down to three different CCW choices. Any thoughts?

Hello everyone, its down to three. I am now stuck on three guns for my dream ccw gun. Now, price not being an issue what would you all do?

1. Sig P938

2. Ruger LC9 with CT laser

3. Kahr CW9 with CT laser

One, note, I have never owned a SAO gun. Like the 938. That concerns me a bit.

Look forward to hearing from you all!

Damo
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Old July 8, 2013, 11:03 PM   #2
Venom1956
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Kahr CW9. There ya go fixed it for you.

You don't need a laser. You'll never see it in the moment. Use the money on practice ammo.
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Old July 8, 2013, 11:09 PM   #3
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Old July 8, 2013, 11:13 PM   #4
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Kahr with laser.

And, money not being a problem, at least 40 hours of training to go with it.

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Old July 8, 2013, 11:36 PM   #5
damo450
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The Kahrs are haunting my dreams. Mind you, I have several handguns. Revolvers and semi autos. I am a rifleman at heart. I own nothing but Sig and Ruger handguns to boot. But the LC series is just....Off to me. My wife and I own an LCP each and she owns an LC380. But I just am not sold on them after handling the kahrs.

(I wanted to also say that I am supposed to pick up the sig 938 tomorrow night for $525 with an extra 7rd mag. Its a nightmare with 10(!) rds through it. An acquaintance of mine is getting divorced.)

Last edited by damo450; July 8, 2013 at 11:44 PM.
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Old July 8, 2013, 11:44 PM   #6
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You really can not go wrong with any of those choices, just what feels best to you.

For me, size and weight are everything in CC, so of my XDS, PM9, PPK, 642, I carry my bodyguard .380 the most.
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Old July 9, 2013, 01:54 AM   #7
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All 3 are good choices, I say ditch the laser though.
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Old July 9, 2013, 08:17 AM   #8
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+1 on Kahr w/o the laser. Very simple operation. Smooth DAO trigger.
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Old July 9, 2013, 08:25 AM   #9
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XDs in 9mm or the LC9 sans laser if only considering your list.
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Old July 9, 2013, 08:33 AM   #10
Grant D
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Ruger LC9 works for me.
Ditch the laser and get a Crossbreed Mini Tuk, and some ammo with the laser money.
That's the set up I carry the majority of the time.
It's what I'm wearing right now as a matter of fact.
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Old July 9, 2013, 08:34 AM   #11
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On the question of the laser, I love lasers and consider them almost essential. However, those who have not trained in low light or who have poor training overall, may not fully understand the utility of a laser.

The laser does not fix your issues if you are not willing to get trained with it. In fact, it does not fix issues at all. It simply provides an alternative sighting method in conditions where traditional sights will not work.

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Old July 9, 2013, 08:41 AM   #12
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Any of the three without the electronic gimickery! Learn proper marksmanship, and by all means don't learn to rely on batteries and circuits to defend your life.
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Old July 9, 2013, 08:53 AM   #13
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I absolutely agree with the laser as alternative sighting method and that it would not fixed shooting fundamental issues.

Just me, I would rather used the money on a flash light than on a laser.
If it is too dark to see the sights, It most likely is too dark to identify the target. One cannot always assume that the shadow is a bad guy. At self defense distances, when one needs to be fast, looking for the laser on the target may take too much time.
Of course, there are always special cases where one is better than the other or where neither is necessary.

With either laser or flash light, training is always good.

Last edited by pilpens; July 9, 2013 at 09:06 AM.
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Old July 9, 2013, 08:57 AM   #14
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I guess the Kahr as it will be the most shootable of the three. I think there are better choices out there though.

No opinion on the laser; if you get it, you should train with the iron sights probably more than the laser, but options are never a bad thing.
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Old July 9, 2013, 09:15 AM   #15
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Pilpens,

If you have had opportunity to shoot much in low light, and in other compromised lighting conditions, you probably already know this, but it is quite possible to have lighting conditions too poor to see your sights clearly, but plenty bright enough to identify the person who is attacking you. For example, many altercations take place in parking lots. In a parking lot after dark, there are often headlights that illuminate the scene and semi – blind the participants. Those participants can still identify each other, but do not have the visual acuity necessary for fine distinctions with how the sights are aligned.

In low light conditions, there is absolutely nothing faster than using the laser -- as long as you have trained with it! Once you have trained with the laser, you know how to avoid "chasing the dot" and other mistakes.

Most arguments against the laser boil down to, "I don't know how to use it, therefore it can't be used."

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Old July 9, 2013, 09:48 AM   #16
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Pax,

Again, there are always cases where flash light or laser will be very useful.
Again, training with whatever one has is always good.
Again, just me, I would rather have a flash light than a laser.
Of course, a person can have both laser and flash light on the pistol to cover all cases.
It is most likely that I am under-trained.
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Old July 9, 2013, 09:49 AM   #17
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I've tried to use lasers, but just can't see the benefits of them. I had a friend one time touting the lasers in low light. We shot steel plates in low light and while he was trying to get the dot on his targets, I was cleaning the bank of plates with a simple set of night lights. In a slow fire situation is low light I guess you could be a little more accurate, but for a self defense situation at close range and happening fast, I just don't see the benefit.
A good double action pistol with night sights would be hard to beat.
I think the Kahr's are a fair pistol and the company stands behind them, but not my choice either. My brother bought one and sent it to them twice before they gave up and replaced it. He could rarely get through one mag without a misfire, due to internal issues. Once they figured out the problem, they replaced the pistol rather than continue to try to fix it, and this one works just fine.
I personally prefer a Shield, but if we were all the same, we would only have one firearms company to deal with.
I do have a S&W 380 with a laser and the dog really enjoys chasing the dot.
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Old July 9, 2013, 10:01 AM   #18
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Quote:
Most arguments against the laser boil down to, "I don't know how to use it, therefore it can't be used."
Actually most arguments against the laser are
1. It's a crutch for many new shooters who want to avoid the time, and expense of learning proper marksmanship.
2. Electronic wizardry has a way of breaking down at the most crutial time. This problem is multiplied if the shooter has learned to rely on the laser to shoot accurately.
3. The laser is another step in the process of shooting in a stressful situation that could go wrong. Under the extreme stress of an attack it's completely possible that a person is concentrating on turning on the laser, and they take their attention away from what the attacker is doing. All the training, and drills in the world cannot overcome the dependance, therefore the need for attention to the laser. If as in reason #2 It doesn't work It is human nature to waste precious time to find out why, or try It again.

Where there are limited situations when a laser would be usefull in a SD situation, they are not common. The most often mentioned is being 'pinned down" behindcover by an attacker. Much more likely in the mind of a Mall Ninja, or in the movies than real life.
If someone is a competant marksman, and trains to use the laser as a secondary sight they do have limited use. But way too many new shooter, or people new to CCW have bought the advertising hype that lasers are the miricle answer to accurate shooting without spending the approate time and money for appropriate training and practice.
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Old July 9, 2013, 12:32 PM   #19
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The whole concept about people becoming dependent on lasers is silly, unless you train solely indoors or in low light. I shoot outdoors and a laser is only be usable a small part of the day.

I think I would pick the Kahr w or w/o the laser. But I wish they had a better warranty (only 5 years).
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Old July 9, 2013, 12:44 PM   #20
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Re: Down to three different CCW choices. Any thoughts?

Okay, I won't go into the laser vs. no laser debate because it has been beaten to death.

If I found myself in the OP's position I would go with the Sig 938. I shoot it better than the other two guns, and I prefer a carry gun to have the 1911 manual of arms. It is something that I am comfortable with, and something I am more accurate and consistent with.

Last edited by allaroundhunter; July 9, 2013 at 12:53 PM.
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Old July 9, 2013, 03:04 PM   #21
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I echo Allaround's comments, the 938 Sig is a dream to shoot, very compact, 1911 type controls and mine has never had a function problem. Unlike the 1911 the sig can be loaded/unloaded with the manual safety engaged and the hammer at full cock. I would suggest the extended magazine for concealed carry as it helps provide a lot more control during firing. I also have a 238 that is super for concealed carry and just a slightly smaller version of the 938 but in .380.
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Old July 9, 2013, 03:41 PM   #22
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Re: Down to three different CCW choices. Any thoughts?

I really like Ruger but can't get past the trigger on the LC9. I looked at one when I was looking to buy but ended up with my SR9C and am glad I did. I understand you're looking for something smaller though.
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Old July 9, 2013, 03:50 PM   #23
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Quote:
The whole concept about people becoming dependent on lasers is silly
Not when you consider the advertising that portrays them as the cure all foe self defense shooting. Prople actually believe that stuff. Sight in their wonder sighted handgun at an indoor range, and think they are prepared for anything because some guy on a gun show on TV told them so.

As far as the OP, his best choice would be the gun he shoots best with, and is most comfortable with without the laser. Then if he is still inclined to use the wizardry of electronic gimmicks he has the option to add it. But he also knows he can shoot well with the gun when the batteries go dead, or a circuit shorted out, or the lens is covered with lint or some other obstruction, or the little laser inside gets jarred lose.
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Old July 9, 2013, 04:37 PM   #24
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My vote goes to the 938, but its the only one I've shot of the three. The biggest downside is going to be trying to find spare mags for it. I believe all the 938's come with nightsights? If you're comfortable with 1911's the 938 will feel pretty natural.
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Old July 9, 2013, 04:45 PM   #25
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Um. A flashlight is also battery-reliant electronic gimmickry that can distract you and go dead when you need it.

Tools. Nothing more, nothing less. Just tools.

But I agree with you that the OP should choose a gun that fits him well, that he trusts and that he enjoys shooting.

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