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Old July 11, 2013, 10:15 PM   #301
ClydeFrog
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Ayoob; LE articles...

Gun writer & sworn LE officer Massad Ayoob has put out a # of gun press items over the years(1980s/1990s/2000s/etc) about how cops & armed citizens were seriously wounded or killed by subjects they thought were "down" or no longer a threat.
I recall a recent Ayoob item where a police officer shot a subject in the chest, he lunged at her, killing her, then he fell over dead.

As the GZ defense team's own medical expert(a veteran forensics doctor & former US Army officer who ran a wound ballistics lab) testified, human beings can keep fighting or be ambulatory even when seriously wounded.

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Old July 11, 2013, 10:53 PM   #302
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After the prosecution rested its train wreck of a case, I was ready to bet on an acquittal. As the defense case progressed, though, I began to realize that the prosecution has an undeclared member its team sitting up there on the bench, wearing a black robe. I don't know how effective the judge's efforts to direct the case will be with the jury.

As of this moment in time, I am now predicting a hung jury.
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Old July 11, 2013, 11:09 PM   #303
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I wish GZ would have taken the stand. Just to speak for himself. But it was not in his best interest... ask Jody Arias.
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Old July 11, 2013, 11:27 PM   #304
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What happens with a hung jury?
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Old July 11, 2013, 11:35 PM   #305
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GZ; facial expressions, trial...

I give GZ props for keeping his cool & not reacting more during portions of the court case.
He broke character a few times during Berine De La Costa(or whatever his full name is) closing statements, shaking his head; no.
To sit & listen to grown men who may barely know call you; soft or weak or out of shape isn't that great to the old ego.

Some may say its a ploy by GZ's legal team but any real man can only bear so much.

If GZ is cleared, Im sure his book or TV movie will be entertaining. The "inside scoop" & politics of the sworn LE officers(Chief Lee, Inv Soreno, etc) & the state prosecutors will be entertaining.
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Old July 11, 2013, 11:38 PM   #306
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What happens with a hung jury?
A mistrial. The case can then be retried.
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Old July 11, 2013, 11:42 PM   #307
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Can that be an indefinite loop if no jury given can reach an answer?
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Old July 12, 2013, 12:24 AM   #308
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Sure, a million dollars a pop to the taxpayers until they get a jury that will send him to gaol.
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Old July 12, 2013, 12:26 AM   #309
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Or acquit him. That could happen too
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Old July 12, 2013, 01:21 AM   #310
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With regard to Judge Nelson (and Glenn, I am not expressing 100% certainty), here are some thoughts from people with a bit more background in criminal proceedings, on the manner in which Judge Nelson questioned Zimmerman about whether he would testify in open court:

Quote:
Quote:
Several legal experts and observers said the outburst was unprecedented.

“I have never seen that in more than 30 years of court reporting,” tweeted journalist Kathi Belich.

Former Senatorial candidate Richard Rivette also expressed his shock at the judge’s behavior.

“This judge is an idiot. I spent five years investigating high profile capital cases defending people from the death penalty, and worked for the Federal judiciary as an independent investigator on other cases. No judge ever inquires as to whether a defendant will testify until the entire defense case is presented. If the defense rests and does not call the defendant then the judge knows there will be no testimony. If the defense calls the defendant then that’s when the judge finds out. They have to get through the entire case first. To see if it is valid after prosecution cross-examines their witnesses and experts as to whether a defendant SHOULD testify, which is decided in private not in public, and NOT on the record. By doing this, the judge has undermined a portion of Zimmerman’s credibility. He looks like he is waffling and this is normal judge/defendant questioning, which it is NOT,” said Rivette.
source:

www.infowars.com/judge-in-zimmerman-case-pressured-by-obama-administration
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Old July 12, 2013, 03:16 AM   #311
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Another point....

The forum posts seem drawn mostly towards the legal issues & the counts against GZ, but a valid point brought up by the mid-morning crew on Orlando's Fox35, www.myfoxorlando.com GZ case watchers/media was if a jury verdict will be held until Mon morning or if the judge will seal it until the building is cleared or the Sanford PD, FHP, deputies are ready to deal with any civil disorders or street protests.
A Fox35 reporter stated the verdict could rile people up on a Fri night or Sat.

As noted in older posts, few protests are around the court property & it is calm but a outrage or incident could create a huge mess in Sanford.

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Old July 12, 2013, 07:15 AM   #312
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One other thing coming out of this trial - if Zimmerman is acquitted, what are the odds that DoJ indicts on a federal hate crime/civil rights beef? I'd say 100%.
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Old July 12, 2013, 07:21 AM   #313
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Quote:
if Zimmerman is acquitted, what are the odds that DoJ indicts on a federal hate crime/civil rights beef?
They can theoretically do that, but it's hard to predict at the moment.
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Old July 12, 2013, 07:24 AM   #314
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Tom, it appears that DoJ has been an active (if well-camouflaged) player all along: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...in-unrest.html
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Old July 12, 2013, 10:52 AM   #315
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Jury gets their last view of closing rebuttal by the prosecution in 10 minutes...

Seemed to me that O'Mara did a good job with closing arguments...

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Old July 12, 2013, 11:09 AM   #316
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The prosecutor is saying the human heart does many things. I guides us, it humanizes us, it gives us compassion, etc.
I think he needs an anatomy lesson.
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Old July 12, 2013, 11:22 AM   #317
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And that rebuttal... the last thing the jury hears... is exactly the argument I was trying to make in the beginning... The part about who initiated contact and the part that Martin was the one who had a right to be in initial fear to defend him self did come up...

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Old July 12, 2013, 11:33 AM   #318
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I think you and the prosecution are making giant, unwarranted assumptions. First, I'm not sure it has ever been demonstrated that Zimmerman initiated contact between the two parties. Second, initiating contact and initiating aggression are two entirely separate events. I know for a fact that the prosecution introduced no evidence whatsoever that Zimmerman initiated any aggression. If you can demonstrate otherwise, please do so.
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Old July 12, 2013, 11:38 AM   #319
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No I am just looking at what I foresaw the state doing coming to fruition...

I always said at that age, I would have likely snookered the NW guy into a confrontation...

But in this case the state is trying to portray Zimmerman as being on a NW patrol shift when he was actually supposedly just heading to target for lunch food...

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Old July 12, 2013, 11:57 AM   #320
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Quote:
No I am just looking at what I foresaw the state doing coming to fruition...
The state is doing a lot of supposition and claiming it to be evidence.

Quote:
I always said at that age, I would have likely snookered the NW guy into a confrontation...
But of what relevance is that to this discussion?

Quote:
But in this case the state is trying to portray Zimmerman as being on a NW patrol shift when he was actually supposedly just heading to target for lunch food...
The state is attempting to portray him as a deranged, hate-filled homicidal maniac, all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding.
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Old July 12, 2013, 12:49 PM   #321
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Rage, bigoted actions, bias, DoJ case....

Early on, I strongly felt GZ used a invalid reason to make contact or "track" Martin, but as the court action ends, I now feel Zimmerman will be cleared & the CRD(Civil Rights Div) can't build a strong "hate crime" case against him.

You can't call someone racist or biased then have a college professor/co-worker/neighbor etc give sworn testimony on the contrary.

As posted a few times, this criminal case was based on public outcry of a young, unarmed teen being killed by a armed, adult male of another race.
The event was twisted like a party balloon and GZ's life & well-being were turned upside down.

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Old July 12, 2013, 12:53 PM   #322
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Quote:
As posted a few times, this criminal case was based on public outcry of a young, unarmed teen being killed by a armed, adult male of another race.
The event was twisted like a party balloon and GZ's life & well-being were turned upside down.
And that is why I believe there will be conviction.
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Old July 12, 2013, 01:00 PM   #323
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Political lynch mob shows up in suits. My fear is that we will actually learn stuff from this trial. The prosecutor said: “he told the guy to tell someone (on the phone) I “killed” him”……but the evidence shows he said: “I shot him”…….he changed the word shot to the word kill in an attempt to show how GZ changed his story…..who changed the story?
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Old July 12, 2013, 01:41 PM   #324
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The decision now rests with the jurors. We'll have to see what happens from here on out - my guess is that, unlike the norm, a quick verdict would tend more likely to be an acquittal and a long deliberation more likely to be a finding of guilt. A hung jury would obviously be longer still.
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Old July 12, 2013, 03:33 PM   #325
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Jury instructions are here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/153354467/...y-Instructions
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