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Old June 28, 2013, 01:03 PM   #1
kxkid
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9mm cast question

I am loading .358 lcn billy bullets in my FNX9, I am putting 3.8 grains of titegroup behind it with a oal of 1.125 with a CCI 500. My question is I am getting some leading which I do not understand why. Everything that I have read about load .358 for 9 is that it reduces leading and improves accuracy. And the amount of leading I am getting after 18 rds is so much that a .45 copper brush does not get it all out. Any suggestions?
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Old June 28, 2013, 03:46 PM   #2
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I'm wondering how hard those bullets are. For 9mm you should need no harder than 12 bnl hardness or they won't obdurate to the barrel and seal up. If you are getting gas cutting past your bullet it's going to lead the barrel no matter what.
I looked at their website and there is no mention of their hardness.
Another thing to try is to slug your barrel to see what dia is actually is. Their were a lot of foreign made 9mm pistols that were as large as .360 in dia but you need to slug it so you know what size your dealing with.

How is the accuracy with jacketed bullets (.355s or .356s)?
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Old June 28, 2013, 04:11 PM   #3
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Re: 9mm cast question

Accuracy is not a issue with jacketed and is better with the cast. I'll call them and ask.
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Old June 28, 2013, 04:17 PM   #4
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Re: 9mm cast question

Just call its at a raiting of 19-21 and it sounds like I do not have enough flare and taking the mollykote off and that's what's causing it
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Old June 28, 2013, 06:14 PM   #5
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that and try a slower powder.
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Old June 29, 2013, 02:40 PM   #6
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For the leading, go to your local super market and buy some Chore Boy scouring pads. Pull some strands and wrap them around a .357 bore brush. You'll have to experiment a bit to see just how much the wrap for your situation. Usually 10 to 20 strokes has worked for me with mild leading. Heavier leading will take a bit more.
Remember, that's Chore BOY, not the Chore Girl pads. The Chore Girl pads have soap in them and you don't want that.
I do agree with the comment to slug your barrel, then use a bullet .001 to .002" over groove diameter.
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Old June 29, 2013, 03:52 PM   #7
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Chore Boy, be sure it's that exact brand name, the real McCoy is pure copper...there are other imitators that are copper plated steel...not a good thing for your bore and even worse for the muzzle. I test those that I find locally with a magnet of my wife's frig. It pays to be careful. Rod
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Old June 29, 2013, 04:31 PM   #8
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I use .356 and lead has not been bad at all.

I have heard of using .358 to reduce leading but find that the issues with leading are usually caused from something else. Somtimes crimping and sometimes powder which I think could be the case here.

Quote:
that and try a slower powder.
He's right Tightgroup is a fast burning powder and can be the leading problem.
http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html
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Old June 29, 2013, 04:35 PM   #9
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But then again I am using the WST and .356 with no unusual leading!.....Sorry about the continuation on my post.

Anyway is the leading more near the chamber area?
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Old June 29, 2013, 05:05 PM   #10
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Titegroup is a hot fast burning powder for use with lead bullets. Try a slower burning powder.
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Old June 30, 2013, 01:28 AM   #11
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Re: 9mm cast question

I have looked for chore boy and no one around here caries it. I think I found the problem was not enough flare. Will fix that and try again if it still does then all I have left powder is hp38 or win231.
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Old June 30, 2013, 08:23 AM   #12
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The cast lead loads I have tried with TG gave leading issues. When I switched to Bull's Eye the problem stopped.
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Old June 30, 2013, 08:25 AM   #13
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Chore Boy is available at Amazon.com; check for the number that are necessary to avoid shipping charges all together.

Another alternative is the Lewis Lead Remover, available from Midway or Brownells...I've had one for 40+ years now...works well.

Case mouth flare should have nothing to do with leading issues. But if you're shaving lead trying to seat those oversize bullets, that might contribute to accuracy as well as leading.

I've used 231 or its equivalent HP38 for 9mm loads for years with no issues and great accuracy. They meter smoothly, and are my go to powders for all light to medium loads in a number of handguns.

.358" sounds a bit big for 9mm...I've used .356" in my own cast bullets as well as commercial offerings in a number of guns: Sig 290, Sig 226, Colt 1911 in 9mm and .38 Super, and two Glocks with after market bbls. I'd try a smaller dia. bullet. Too, you didn't say how new the gun was. For some, a cpl hundred jacketed bullets will significantly smooth a new bore. Short of that, you can improve your bore's smoothness by judicious use of either JB Bore paste, or the Remington equivalent. Be careful to avoid sawing the cleaning rod across the muzzle as the crown can be damaged irreparably.

HTH's Rod
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Old July 1, 2013, 08:02 PM   #14
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Re: 9mm cast question

Reason case flare with billy bullets is the molly kote gets taken off the bullet exposing the lead which causes the leading. Its been hot as heck here in az so I have not had a chance to load some up with more flare.
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Old July 3, 2013, 07:12 AM   #15
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Quote:
I use .356 and lead has not been bad at all.

I have heard of using .358 to reduce leading but find that the issues with leading are usually caused from something else. Somtimes crimping and sometimes powder which I think could be the case here.

X2
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Old July 3, 2013, 11:51 PM   #16
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Lube failure. I cast and shoot 125 grain .358 bullets that are lubed with Delux Liquid X-Lox~45-45-10 ( two coats) all the time. No leading at all.

http://lsstuff.com/store/index.php?m...products_id=31
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Old July 6, 2013, 01:25 AM   #17
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Re: 9mm cast question

OK I have pluged my barrel and it measures out at approximately. 353-.356 hard to get a accurate reading when using candle wax. I added more flare and changes to hp38 at 3.7 grains at 1.125 oal and there is way less leading than doing the same flare with titegroup. Need a little more powder since it does not lock back but does cycle next round. The amount of lead that is in there now for 17 rounds is a normal amount and IMO nothing to worry about. I am going to try some .356 cast 115 from mastercast and see what I get.
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Old July 6, 2013, 11:28 PM   #18
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Quote:
hp38 at 3.7 grains at 1.125 oal and there is way less leading than doing the same flare with titegroup. Need a little more powder since it does not lock back but does cycle next round.
Sounds like your COAL is too long and may need to shorten it up. May have been half the problem to begin with. If your bullet is in anyway touching the barrel grooves you may need to shorten it up and rework your powder load accordingly.

What GRn bullet did you say you were using? I am assuming above 115 grn since it a .358 diameter. The heavier Grn requires a shorter COAL and a lighter powder charge for a smooth feeding and safe load.

Sorry I missed that earlier but if your COAL is too long you can cause leading as well. If you reduced the leading already and your COAL is still too long, you can reduce the leading even more.

Just don't forget to double check your powder charge. From what I know about HP 38 your charge should still be on. It is not as fast burning as the WST I am using but close and I am using 3.5 grns in a 125 GRN LFP with a COAL of 1.010. But you may want to drop it to 3.5
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Old July 7, 2013, 01:38 PM   #19
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Re: 9mm cast question

OK I will try a shorter coal. Hogdons site lists 3.8 as the min and 1.125 coal. I'll let you know what just going shorter does
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Old July 10, 2013, 09:22 AM   #20
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Re: 9mm cast question

Would a cast bullet moving too slow cause leading? I changed my coal to 1.098 and still have leading
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Old July 10, 2013, 02:55 PM   #21
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Is the leading throughout the entire length of the barrel, or just on one end--like near the muzzle or perhaps the other end near the chamber?
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Old July 10, 2013, 06:31 PM   #22
kxkid
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its mostly midway through to the end. There is a little by the front of the chamber. I was just looking at my lyman book and for a 120 grain it lists the starting load at 2.9 coal of 1.110. I am at 3.7 with a coal of 1.098. I am starting to think that it is a little too hot. It also list another 120 lead load, different bullet shape than I am using at a starting of 3.0 at a coal of 1.065.
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Old July 10, 2013, 07:25 PM   #23
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Quote:
I am starting to think that it is a little too hot
I am thinking more like 3.2 for that powder. Its a little hotter and faster burning than my powder and I use 3.5 GRN powder load.

I know that someone who has tested my powder settled on 3.5 and that 3.7 was not as accurate.

Go with a 3.2 load to start with the shorter COAL then check for leading.

Also what lead bullets are you using and are you using lube?
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Old July 10, 2013, 09:39 PM   #24
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Re: 9mm cast question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wreck-n-Crew View Post
I am thinking more like 3.2 for that powder. Its a little hotter and faster burning than my powder and I use 3.5 GRN powder load.

I know that someone who has tested my powder settled on 3.5 and that 3.7 was not as accurate.

Go with a 3.2 load to start with the shorter COAL then check for leading.

Also what lead bullets are you using and are you using lube?
They are Billy bullets coated with molykote.
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Old July 11, 2013, 06:38 PM   #25
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I am thinking the combination does not work for the gun and time to give it up (unless you like cleaning lead out).

I have some harder cast lead bullets that I am pushing to around 1200 and no problems in my Sig.

But they all have variations that some barrels are tighter than others mfg wise so you need to find out what the FN is (I don't know off hand, just that what I ordered for the Sig suited their general tolerance though there can be exceptions).

Also hard is not the full story, maybe bot that form Penn bullets. It does need a certain hardness but there are other aspects of the lead characteristic that affects it all.
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