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Old July 5, 2013, 01:14 AM   #1
monoxide
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Silencer questions

I was wondering if when you get a silencer with all your paper work is it registered to one firearm or can I use it on multiple fire arms I own as long as it is the same caliber and fits it?
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Old July 5, 2013, 02:07 AM   #2
Theohazard
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Legally, you can put your silencer on any firearm you want. The silencer itself is the regulated item, not the host firearm.

And the general rule of silencer interchangeability is you can use it on any weapon of the same or smaller caliber with the same or lower pressure. And be careful shooting some silencers with dirty calibers like .22; some aren't designed to be cleaned and .22 dirties up a suppressor.
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Old July 5, 2013, 03:12 PM   #3
monoxide
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Silencer questions

Ok. I was thinking about getting a ruger 10/22 and wanted to make it a "tactical" style gun with silencer and maybe a archangel stock or what ever stock I think fits the bill. But also wanted to use the silencer on my .22 pistols as long as I can find a threaded barrel for it. It is a little Jimenez ja22 I am thinking about getting a p22 also tho. Do you have any silencer company's you recommend that can be taken apart and cleaned?
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Old July 5, 2013, 11:10 PM   #4
Theohazard
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.22 suppressors get very dirty very fast. It's a dirty cartridge to begin with and there's not enough pressure to blow most of the carbon fouling out of the end of the suppressor (like on a center fire rifle suppressor), so most of the carbon stays in the suppressor. But most of the fouling ends up being lead; .22 bullets are all either straight lead, lead coated with a lubricant, or copper washed lead. That lead fills up the suppressor fairly quickly so you want a one that can be disassembled easily even when it's caked with lead.

Heres my list of requirements for a .22 suppressor:

1) Very quiet.
2) Able to be dissasembled.
3) Easy to disassemble even when the internals are caked with lead.
4) Stainless baffles (more durable and gives you more cleaning options).

The only two suppressors I would consider are the Silencerco Sparrow and the SWR Spectre 2. Both are meant for .22 but are also rated for .22 mag, .17 HMR, and 5.7x28mm. The Sparrow is a little better as far as number 3 is concerned and the Spectre is a little better as far as number 1 is concerned (the Sparrow has a noticeable first round pop, meaning the first round fired is slightly louder. The first round pop of the Spectre isn't really noticable. After that, they're basically the same as far as sound).

I've fired both and I've taken both apart when very dirty. I like that the Spectre is quieter for the first shot, but the Sparrow doesn't need any kind of tool to take apart even when caked with lead, whereas after a few hundred rounds you're gonna need some kind of straight-edged tool (the one provided, or something like the back edge of a knife) to take off the front end cap of the Spectre to push out the baffles.

I'd be very surprised if you can find a threaded barrel for your Jimenez (it's not even worth having it threaded), but a P22 is already threaded; you'll just need to get an adaptor for it. Silencerco makes one for the P22 that says it's for the Sparrow, but it will work with any .22 suppressor with 1/2x28 threads (pretty much all of them).
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Old July 5, 2013, 11:19 PM   #5
monoxide
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Silencer questions

How much will each run me roughly? I'm at work right now and can't check
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Old July 5, 2013, 11:27 PM   #6
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My shop sells the Spectre for 399.99 and the Sparrow for 499.99. We're priced higher than most shops but we have a large selection and we offer a free trust.

Also, don't forget you have to pay the BATFE a $200.00 transfer tax for each suppressor you buy.
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Old July 5, 2013, 11:44 PM   #7
BillM
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Take a look at the Liberty Kodiak TL. Easy to clean, quiet--
and it just does NOT muck up the action as bad as some others.
I've ran 300+ rds through a 10-22 with it without any
cleaning or malfunctions.

If you want to set up a 10-22 with a can, the Tactical Solutions
SBX barrel is sweet. Bolt gun? Savage MkII FV-SR
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Old July 6, 2013, 12:47 AM   #8
monoxide
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Silencer questions

How does a trust work? Does that mean some one else technically owns the NFA item
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Old July 6, 2013, 09:48 AM   #9
Theohazard
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The trust technically owns the suppressor and you (along with anyone else you designate) control the trust. A trust is usually used when people can't get a law enforcement sign-off, but it offers some other advantages as well.

The sign-off process is as follows: purchase the suppressor through your dealer, fill out some paperwork, take the paperwork and get photoed, fingerprinted, and signed off by local law enforcement, and mail the paperwork along with a $200 to the BATFE. In about six months your dealer will receive the paperwork back with a tax stamp affixed and they'll call you to come pick up your suppressor and your tax stamp. This tax stamp paperwork is what allows you to own the suppressor and it's a good idea to keep a copy of it with the suppressor at all times.

However, this process only works if your local law enforcement will sign off. If they won't (like in my neck of the woods), then you need to purchase the suppressor through a revocable trust. In many ways the trust is superior; it doesn't require a sign-off or photos or fingerprints and it allows more than one person to be on it, meaning more than one person can possess the NFA item. Also, you can designate a person to receive your suppressors upon the event of your death. On my NFA trust I am the settlor, I am the first trustee, my wife is the second trustee, and my father-in-law will receive my suppressors in the event that both my wife and I die.

Without a trust, you are the only person who can possess the suppressor; if your wife has access to your suppressor safe and you're not home, you're both breaking federal law. Also, without a trust the government gets your suppressors when you die.
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Old July 6, 2013, 10:05 AM   #10
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Quote:
Also, without a trust the government gets your suppressors when you die.
Not always. Title II weapons can be transferred to lawful heirs.
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Old July 6, 2013, 10:13 AM   #11
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Interesting. I didn't know that. I actually have zero experience with the CLEO sign-off; they won't do it where I live.
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Old July 7, 2013, 08:04 PM   #12
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Take a look at the products from Innovative Arms. Their rimfire suppressors are the Apex line; all are designed to be disassembled for cleaning. The standard Apex retails at $299; the Apex Micro is a little less and the Apex S (stainless steel construction rated for the rimfire cartridges other than .22 LR) is a little more.

I bought a standard Apex from Allen Arms Tactical in Greenville, SC; their price was $225.
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Old July 8, 2013, 12:08 AM   #13
weblance
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Jim Pixley will thread and remount your front sight on a 10/22 barrel for $135. He is the best of the best. I would check to see if he can thread that Jimenez. He threaded a Beretta Neois barrel for me, and that isnt an easy one to thread.

http://jpgrips.com/page1
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Old July 8, 2013, 01:36 AM   #14
Theohazard
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I really wouldn't spend the money to thread that Jimenez. It's probably going to require silver soldering on a threaded barrel extension. On a firearm that is one of the cheapest and worst-performing guns on the market, I can hardly see how that would be worth it.
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Old July 8, 2013, 04:34 AM   #15
Old Stony
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If you would dedicate your suppressor to the rifle, I have a Yankee Hill that I am very happy with. I bought their barrel for the 10/22 that looks basically like a bull barrel but has an internal suppressor that is easily removed for cleaning. I put it in an archangel stock with magpul sights and a good optic.
Your pistol project would most likely end up as something that you couldn't use sights on anyway, and couldn't hit anything with. Sights can be a problem with a pistol and you get tired of them pretty quick if all you can do is point them and guess.
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Old July 8, 2013, 10:02 AM   #16
Theohazard
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My favorite .22 pistol by far is the Ruger MkIII. Extremely durable, reliable, and accurate. And it comes in many threaded barrel options. On every suppressor I've shot with a MkIII as host, the sights cleared the suppressor, no problem.

Integrally suppressed 10/22 barrels are cool if you have the money for more than one suppressor, but they're pretty limiting; you can't swap it on every .22 you own. I like the Tactical Solutions SBX barrel for that: It's a short, threaded 10/22 barrel with a shroud that brings it up to the 16" legal length. The suppressor slips into the shroud and screws onto the end of the barrel. This allows you to have a removable suppressor that doesn't add much extra length to your barrel.
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Old July 8, 2013, 01:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Also, without a trust the government gets your suppressors when you die.
Completely false. Take a look at what a will and the ATF form 5 (tax free transfer) can do for you and your heirs.
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Old July 8, 2013, 01:43 PM   #18
weblance
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I have 10 threaded pistols. The Ruger 22/45s are great, but large. I enjoy my Ruger SR22P alot. Its small, double action, and accurate. I also have a threaded Sig Mosquito and a Umarex PPK/S that are both fun, and reliable. All 3 of these pistols can be had for under $400.
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Old July 8, 2013, 06:33 PM   #19
Theohazard
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Quote:
Lark posted
Quote:
Also, without a trust the government gets your suppressors when you die.
Completely false. Take a look at what a will and the ATF form 5 (tax free transfer) can do for you and your heirs.
Tom Servo already corrected me on that. I admitted that I have zero experience with the CLEO sign-off, as they won't do that in my neck of the woods.
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Old June 26, 2014, 12:06 PM   #20
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Dont forget to pay from the trust if oyu use one.

Yes, once you own the can you can do whatever you want with it, you can even use it on concealed carry self defense gun, but I would not recommend doing that (just because its legal doesn't mean you wont spend the night in jail before the cops figure out you were within the law).

What you can't do is allow someone else to be in possession of the can unless you are with them. Technically, constructive possession counts too, for example, it would be illegal for anyone to even know the combination to the safe you store your suppressor in. If big brother ever wants to start confiscating suppressors, I'll bet the first thing they are going to do is try to nail you on a constructive possession charge. The best way to get around this is to register it to a trust and add anyone who lives with you as trustees, all trustees can use the can however they please.

Also, if you do set up a trust to buy your Title II toys (which I highly recommend) you should also open a bank account in the trust's name and use that account to pay for all your Title II stuff as well as the tax stamps. Technically, if the trust is buying the suppressor the trust should pay for the suppressor and the account makes the trust appear more legit, it also ensures your trust remains funded (it needs to be funded to be considered legit) if you ever transfer things out of it.

Not doing so won't get your form 4 denied, but if the NFA comes under attack in the future and they start auditing past form 4's you will be better off having paid for everything with checks bearing the name of your trust.

Again, its not necessary to get your can approved, but why take the risk? Opening an account for your trust is free, and can even make you money if a bank is running a promotion. I opened my trust account during my bank's $200 checking account promotion, paid for the tax stamp just by opening a free checking account.
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Old June 26, 2014, 05:38 PM   #21
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Boltomatic - where are you getting this information? Frankly, it sounds like a bunch of made up info and conjecture from a hunting forum.
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Old June 26, 2014, 07:09 PM   #22
Theohazard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltomatic
What you can't do is allow someone else to be in possession of the can unless you are with them. Technically, constructive possession counts too, for example, it would be illegal for anyone to even know the combination to the safe you store your suppressor in. If big brother ever wants to start confiscating suppressors, I'll bet the first thing they are going to do is try to nail you on a constructive possession charge. The best way to get around this is to register it to a trust and add anyone who lives with you as trustees, all trustees can use the can however they please.
"Constructive possession" has nothing to do with someone else having access to your safe, "constructive possession" means that a person has the parts required to build an unregistered NFA item but they're not assembled yet.

Let's say you have a short-barreld upper and a regular lower, but no pistol lower: Even though you haven't actually assembled an SBR yet, you still have all the parts required to assemble an SBR and no other explanation for having them (you don't have a pistol-configured lower so you can't claim the short barrel was for a pistol). That's constructive possession.
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Old June 26, 2014, 07:10 PM   #23
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Paying from a trust...

I have paid for all my NFA stuff with a money order made out to the dealer. I get the bank to write my trust name in the memo line, but the money comes from my chk acct

One way or another the cash gets traced back to you personally. You put it into the trust acct and then use the trust acct to buy a can. The money still came from you.
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Old June 28, 2014, 09:34 PM   #24
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For 22 pistols id put my Element 2 up against my Sparrow any day as far as quiet. As far as easy to clean the Sparrow is better. From my rifles I can't really tell a difference. So I keep my Element 2 on my Walther P22 and my Sparrow on my 10/22.

I also have a AWC Thundertrap in 45-70 that I use on my Marlin lever action. Unfortunately it is neither super quiet nor can you clean it well (sealed can). I do occasionally throw it in my ultrasonic cleaner with purple power just to try to clean the internals.

I have the paperwork in for a Liberty Infinity but I have yet to shoot it.

as far as a trust goes see what other people said. I have no experience with the trust. All of my NFA items are personal items which means when I pass I will have to have my next of kin fill out a form 5 to get the items.
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Old June 30, 2014, 11:02 AM   #25
dogtown tom
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Quote:
boltomatic .....What you can't do is allow someone else to be in possession of the can unless you are with them.
Only if the stamp was acquired by an individual. If trust is the possessor, anyone listed as a member of the trust can possess the silencer by themselves.





Quote:
Technically, constructive possession counts too, for example, it would be illegal for anyone to even know the combination to the safe you store your suppressor in.
Nonsense. There is no Federal law or ATF regulation that comes anywhere close to this enduring myth.




Quote:
Also, if you do set up a trust to buy your Title II toys (which I highly recommend) you should also open a bank account in the trust's name and use that account to pay for all your Title II stuff as well as the tax stamps.
Not all states require a bank account in order to set up a trust.



Quote:
Technically, if the trust is buying the suppressor the trust should pay for the suppressor
Nonsense.




Quote:
it also ensures your trust remains funded (it needs to be funded to be considered legit)
Again, YOUR state may require this, not all do.



Quote:
Not doing so won't get your form 4 denied, but if the NFA comes under attack in the future and they start auditing past form 4's you will be better off having paid for everything with checks bearing the name of your trust.
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