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Old July 7, 2013, 02:13 PM   #76
SgtLumpy
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I think there are pros and cons to both ways of carrying.
Apparently a lot of people seem to disagree with that. Is it not reasonable to assume and allow others to have the viewpoint that there are no PROs to carrying the thing empty? Just because one person believes there are pros and cons, doesn't mean others have to concede that there are pros and cons.

EVERYTHING posted on a board of this nature is opinion of the poster. I'm pretty sure nobody here is telling you that you must carry it cocked and locked.


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Old July 7, 2013, 02:16 PM   #77
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Quote:
Quote:
Where did someone say they might shoot a family member when awoken at night.



Quote:
I am not on the ball when woken in the middle of the night. So maybe the few seconds to load the firearm would give me time to make sure it was a real threat and not some family member going to the toilet.
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I replied to that in post 68.
I replied to your post 68 and your answer is that you replied to that in post 68.

I'm done, thanks.


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Old July 7, 2013, 03:38 PM   #78
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no PROs to carrying the thing empty?
Not empty loaded operate the slide and go just like the Israelis do who have more experience than most. They obviously see a pro to carrying without a round in the chamber. Then as I said what would they know.
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Old July 7, 2013, 03:50 PM   #79
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Not empty loaded operate the slide and go just like the Israelis do who have more experience than most. They obviously see a pro to carrying without a round in the chamber. Then as I said what would they know.
It's much easier if your a professional Military or LEO always holding full sized weapons at bay to keep them with loaded with chamber empty. Totally different if your a citizen CCW holder with a small .380acp in the pocket.

There are different needs, for different situations, for different people, in different places.

I don't see why this thread needed to turn into a slug-fest.
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Old July 7, 2013, 04:12 PM   #80
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It's much easier if your a professional Military or LEO always holding full sized weapons at bay to keep them with loaded with chamber empty. Totally different if your a citizen CCW holder with a small .380acp in the pocket.
Fair point but that's not why they do it. Its to cut down on the number of negligent discharges. So they think helping prevent negligent discharges outweighs the benefit of the extra second that it takes to put a round in the chamber. I for one am not going to be arrogant enough to discount the experience of the Israelis in these matters.
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Old July 7, 2013, 04:53 PM   #81
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Life isn't the movies. Intruders at night...?..Hmmm...

It would be prudent to have a good early warning system; a noisy dog, motion activated flood lights; a good alarm system, great locks, reinforced doors, video systems that light up and beep when someone enters the property...etc.

A night time door kick or covert intrusion is usually not one man. Perhaps two of more people. Make it hard for them to get inside will give you time to take a defensive posture. Cocked and Locked or not, you must get awake and you must get ready.

At my house it's a Glock condition 2. And it has a lite. You need light and plenty of it. But we live in a good neighborhood.

If I travel and stay in areas I am not familiar with, my GLOCK is condition 1 on the nightstand at the hotel.

So it depends on where I am.

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Old July 7, 2013, 04:56 PM   #82
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I never have a round in the chamber unless I'm wearing the weapon.
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Old July 7, 2013, 05:08 PM   #83
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The reason the Israelis used unchambered carry has been discussed into the ground as they did not trust the carriers at the time. It wasn't because they were all super commandos.
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Old July 7, 2013, 05:11 PM   #84
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Life isn't the movies. Intruders at night...?..Hmmm...
Yeah who ever heard of armed home invasions. I mean it's not like we have people shooting up elementary schools, malls, movie theaters, and the like. The thought of someone breaking into someones home is just far fetched and preposterous.

:Sarcasm:
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Old July 7, 2013, 05:27 PM   #85
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Should you keep a round in the chamber in a house gun?

Locally, by far most home robberies occur during the day when the occupants are away. This happened to us back in 2007. My "home" gun is always chambered, goes with me when I leave the house, so I'll have it when I return.

I will never leave a loaded(chambered or not) gun in my house unless it is locked in the safe. Things that go bump in the night do not worry me as I have good locks on windows and doors, so forcible entry would take more time than it takes me to grab my Kahr. But I will never come home to a trashed home again unarmed...THAT is a horrible feeling.
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Old July 7, 2013, 05:33 PM   #86
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Life isn't the movies. Intruders at night...?..Hmmm...
Sometimes truth can be stranger then fiction.

If I were an attractive female known to be living alone, a nighttime break-in for reasons other then theft could be just as likely a day-time one.

Last edited by Chris9472; July 7, 2013 at 05:50 PM.
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Old July 7, 2013, 05:48 PM   #87
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Locally, by far most home robberies occur during the day when the occupants are away.
I'm going to pique gnits here. Nothing personal. Just a pet pieve of mine.

A ROBBERY is when the bad guy uses a weapon or the threat of a weapon or physical force against a PERSON. As in "Stick 'em up, gimmie your money".

A BURGLARY is when the bad guy enters your home or other occupiable structure, in some states including a motor vehicle, and takes your stuff. As in "we were gone for the evening and someone broke in and stole our TV".

Robbery = against person
Burglary = against premise

Again, not trying to be a net nanny. Just a pevicus peticus.


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Old July 7, 2013, 06:07 PM   #88
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Should you keep a round in the chamber in a house gun?

I get you Sgt Lumpy, but coming home to a burglary in progress, could easily turn into a robbery...that is why my carry/home guns are always chambered.
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Old July 7, 2013, 06:51 PM   #89
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Should you keep a round in the chamber in a house gun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmodragoon View Post
With a 1911,
I know you can manually ease down the hammer and go from needing to rack to needing to thumb-cock, but I don't care for that either. Honestly, why bother when other options exist?
]
I would highly NOT recommend that. Sounds like a perfect opportunity for a accidental discharge.
I think some people don't keep 1911's cocked and locked because of habit. Whether it be from not having external hammers on a lot of there pistols or somehow visualizing a revolver cocked.
Concealed hammer DAO usually has such a long trigger pull, it would be very intentional trigger pull, although if they have a safety I will normally use it.
This one of those topics that can go on forever with no right or wrong. To me a unloaded or unchambered gun can get you killed. Similar as a dull tool is a dangerous tool.
The only advantage I see is that if a irresponsible person would have a pistol where a smaller child would get it, they couldn't rack the slide in most cases. If that has the slightest chance of happening they shouldn't have a gun in the first place.
I've made it clear to my wife that all my guns are loaded and chambered in the house or on person.
Bottom line.. Do what you're comfortable with and
Be safe!
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Old July 7, 2013, 06:59 PM   #90
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Re: Should you keep a round in the chamber in a house gun?

My EDC's (both 1911's) are carried CONDITION TWO. I drill myself to cock the weapon as I draw it, finger indexed along the slide until target is sighted in, then I stage the trigger. At home, since there are no children around, both pistols are within reach, as is my S/S 12ga.
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Old July 7, 2013, 07:36 PM   #91
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that is why my carry/home guns are always chambered.
Well, is there any other way? ...


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Old July 7, 2013, 08:11 PM   #92
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If you don't and need to use your gun right now and the Bad Guy or guys are coming in on you and you don't have enough time, ask him/them if they'll give you just a second to get ready.
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Old July 7, 2013, 08:38 PM   #93
Herr Walther
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From the time you hear something strange how long does it take to rack the slide on a handgun you have within hands reach at all times while at home?

I'm not against the practice of having a loaded handgun ready to fire with you at all times even if you're not wearing it.

It's not something I care to do unless I'm carrying it.
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Old July 7, 2013, 10:56 PM   #94
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I keep 1911s with hammer down on a live round.
Yes, it can be done. No, I've never had an AD. From what I've read in the past few years, it's not a commen practice anymore, for various reasons.
there is also a halfcock, which makes lowering the hammer easier then you'd think on a single action trigger.

If you don't know what your doing or don't feel comfortable doing it with a live round then don't. I'm not advocating it, simply because my grasp of the history behind it isn't as solid as it once was. Just saying it can be done, and was once they way many people kept 1911s when not cocked and locked.
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Old July 7, 2013, 11:25 PM   #95
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Guns off my body have no reason to be chambered. Unacceptable risk, especially with other people around. If I grabbed a gun in my home a shotgun with a full mag and spare ammo onboard is plenty. I habitually keep a loaded gun in my pocket. Anything more serious, you should consider re-locating your suburban oasis out of taliban country.


On 1911s and C2, Browning had that mode of once common carry in mind, see 1897 shotgun of his design, that was the safety, press the button and pull the trigger to drop to half. For a 1911, with hammer captured, depress trigger, relax hammer from full cock, release trigger and continue to follow hammer down to half-cock notch. C&L carry was uncommon when the 1911 was introduced.

I do carry C1 when wearing a proper holster that covers the triggerguard. I've been known to mexican a 1911 in C2 though. Still in my personal risk matrix I have no need to leave a C2 or C1 1911 laying around when not on me, C3 will work just fine.
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Old July 8, 2013, 12:07 AM   #96
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Guns off my body have no reason to be chambered.
Perhaps not, but there are good reasons to avoid repeatedly loading and unloading semi-automatics, one of them being that it cuts down on the chances of negligent discharges by eliminating unnecessary gun manipulation. Another is that it dramatically reduces the chances of catastrophic incidents due to bullet setback.
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Old July 8, 2013, 12:12 AM   #97
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Guns off my body have no reason to be chambered.
As Johnska mentioned there are downsides to constantly loading and unloading guns. I notice bullet setback sometimes after just two chamberings, everytime that happens I might as well grab a dollar bill and light it on fire. My carry gun typically stays loaded untill next time I go to the range.
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Old July 8, 2013, 01:10 PM   #98
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Just for the sake of conversation, I grew up very near a home where a "semi-famous" murder took place. Anyway, the family (husband, wife, and adult daughter) were murdered on the second floor of their large early 19th century stone home. They had a number of firearms out and available in the bedroom as they were concerned about the potential for someone attempting to do the family harm. Somehow 3 amateur intruders were able to gain access to the home, move through the home and up the stairs, and kill all three members while they were still in bed. I don't know if they had rounds chambered or not, but obviously people can get into homes (even nicer ones with security systems), and murder people while they sleep. If by chance an alarm or a dog had tipped the family off just before this even happened, I'm sure every second would have counted, even the couple of seconds it would have taken to get their thoughts collected enough to form a coherent thought, and to grab the gun to chamber a round, etc. In truth, I think every person has to make their own choice on this matter, and nothing that any of us has to say really matters (other than to provide some food for thought). I only comment because of some of the seemingly arrogant and naïve thoughts typical of some who like to imagine they are above the reality of the world (because they live in a so-called "nice" community, with low crime rates, etc.) The county in which this murder took place probably has 1 or 2 murders a year, and those most likely are "domestic" cases, not random, violent crimes (or organized as this example was). Very low crime rates, to the point that many people who still live there today, don't worry about locking their doors.
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Old July 8, 2013, 01:40 PM   #99
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Our personal preference. CC pistols have a round in. However, when not carrying the CC's, those are in a safe and further, in a holster in the safe.

All other firearms, including those locked in quick access safes, don't. The ones in quick access safes do have full mags, but everything has to be racked. The view is that we go with the CC's. Everything else has a high likelihood of going to the range etc, and there is time for safety in case someone forgets something on that end.

Last edited by zincwarrior; July 8, 2013 at 04:35 PM.
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Old July 8, 2013, 02:00 PM   #100
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Perhaps not, but there are good reasons to avoid repeatedly loading and unloading semi-automatics, one of them being that it cuts down on the chances of negligent discharges by eliminating unnecessary gun manipulation. Another is that it dramatically reduces the chances of catastrophic incidents due to bullet setback.
Two more good reasons to use the Israeli method. No round in the chamber no chance of a N/D simple.
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