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Old July 6, 2013, 12:00 PM   #51
Crankgrinder
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I do not own a 45. would have bought one not long ago but it turns out, things are not in my favor there. I like its concept for its likelihood to ricochet less, and pass through targets less. I like that it is a 100 y/o round and that the new technology cant seem to surpass it effectively enough. I own 2 9mms because i believe that their efficiency in size, weight, capacity and cost is real tough to beat.
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Old July 6, 2013, 12:36 PM   #52
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Might as well have a sense of humor about it, because the debate isn't going away.

I fully support both as viable options. In fact, my next conquest will be for a full sized .45 ACP Zombie Gun.
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Old July 6, 2013, 01:02 PM   #53
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A high cap 9 makes more sense for zombies. I'm just sayin'...................

And Yes, I viewed the videos.

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Old July 6, 2013, 01:05 PM   #54
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Where are the 10mm guys to represent or are they just laughing too hard at your pea shooters to post.

Folks do realize those videos were a parody of this very discussion, right??
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Old July 6, 2013, 01:27 PM   #55
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More power than 9MM, more capacity than 45 ACP, larger diameter than 357 Sig
This thread just made the case for 40 S&W being the perfect CCW round!
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Old July 6, 2013, 01:53 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyJim
For .45 carriers it's about size and stopping power. For 9mm carriers, it's about shot placement and being obsessive about running out of ammo.
Not so fast there, Kain-tuck.

There are probably lots of guys like me, who carry a 9mm, but would rather have a 45. Just not willing to "dress around the gun" to do it. I fully recognize the 45's inherent superiority in many ways. But in a more practical sense, a slim compact 9mm is a lot more comfortable and convenient to carry.

That's where I'm coming from.

Having said all that, I recently got one of those new-fangled XDs 45s and it looks like it'll be a nice carry piece.
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Old July 6, 2013, 02:13 PM   #57
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Tunnelrat:
Thanks for the detail my post was missing.

Skoro:
Have you seen the Kahr P40 or PM40? Not bad 'tweeners!
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Old July 6, 2013, 02:44 PM   #58
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Re: The real difference between those who carry .45 acp and 9mm

What's the most compact 10mm pistol?
I don't care about kick.
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Old July 6, 2013, 03:18 PM   #59
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As far as it go's in my choice in carrying the 9mm I have, it is more to do with the weapons I own and have to choose from.

That can change as far as my choices and likely will.

My take on the idea that there is no difference in lethality or damage caused by a 9mm or a .45 as it relates to the word stopping power is just that, my take.

Also the that belief that follows many that have been influenced by someone else or data misinterpreted causes to many debates about pistol cartridge lethality.

What follows is my take>>>>>

What the truth is as to the "stopping power" of given rounds is a source of argument due to the interpretation of stopping power and the misconstrued data that exist by forensic pathologist as to what a round does to the human body and how it related to the data produced by ammunition performance charts where the X factor in many calculations and interpretations of the data leave room for misinterpretation of the facts.

The X factor is ft-lbs of energy.

I will say this, a standard .556 round has a smaller diameter and GRN bullet than a standard 9mm load. Why is it more deadly? Some will say FPS but fps is the result of ft-lbs of energy which is 4 times the energy of a standard 9mm.

I am not saying ft-lbs is the deciding factor, diameter matters as well when dealing with a group of pistol rounds which just so happen (by chance or design) to have characteristics that contain some safety factors when dealing with issues such as over penetration and lethality beyond the intended target.

I will not ask that anyone take my post as anything other than my experience and my view that I don't wish to respond on, only to leave with those who want to decide for themselves how it relates in their view of what is what.
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Old July 6, 2013, 03:41 PM   #60
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Quote:
There are probably lots of guys like me, who carry a 9mm, but would rather have a 45. Just not willing to "dress around the gun" to do it. I fully recognize the 45's inherent superiority in many ways. But in a more practical sense, a slim compact 9mm is a lot more comfortable and convenient to carry.
I carry both, not at the same time, but at different times. I was summing up a couple of points on the videos which are hilarious.
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Old July 6, 2013, 04:04 PM   #61
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I have 3 .45's, 2 .40's, 2 9mm's and one 357Sig as well as other assorted handguns. I prefer to carry the 357Sig. Just a personal preference from 40+ years of carrying.

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Old July 6, 2013, 04:07 PM   #62
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Re: The real difference between those who carry .45 acp and 9mm

When talking about foot pounds its always assumed that all the energy is absorbed. In reality that's obviously not always the case. Getting into anatomical structure begs the question, did the energy get absorbed by ripping the heart in two or an artery or was it just a flesh wound?
Was the shot to the artery in the neck or only the thigh?
If the caliber is so small that it doesn't even pass through the body out the other side then yes all the energy was absorbed, however if it passes through the body out the other side then you have wasted foot pounds of energy that could hit an unintended target.

Many feel a 45 caliber is the perfect balance between hole size, ft pounds of energy yet not passing out the other side of a man at close range.

You guys all know this I just wanted to remind that foot pounds are worthless unless they are actually absorbed, and absorbed into the right spot that is vital.

Placement is probably the first priority.
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Old July 6, 2013, 05:11 PM   #63
UncleEd
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Years ago I read that the difference between the 9 mm and .45 ACP was this:

Shoot a huge groundhog with a 9mm and it runs to its hole and dies.

Shoot a huge groundhog with a .45 ACP and it walks to its hole and dies.
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Old July 6, 2013, 05:44 PM   #64
Wreck-n-Crew
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Quote:
When talking about foot pounds its always assumed that all the energy is absorbed.
I have never heard anyone say that before. Kind of new to me. Haven't heard this in the forums either. Though I have read many of the round vs. round arguments, I could have missed it being mentioned here or there but I have yet to see anyone claim that to give me reason to agree with the "always" part of your statement.

What I can say is that once a given round hits the human body, the amount of energy in that round determines the amount of damage it can do. http://books.google.com/books?id=rF1...hology&f=false


What I see when I have tested guns on about every thing imaginable is different from what some believe.

Even +p+ 9mm doesn't come close to an average .357 magnum as far as damage but still doesn't stop some from claiming they are close.

As far as if anyone believes that, even with video evidence of damage posted all over YouTube that substantiates it, there is no convincing some people that power matters most and if that's the case it's an argument to defend something...and I will leave it to them
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Old July 6, 2013, 06:15 PM   #65
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Re: The real difference between those who carry .45 acp and 9mm

The term "always" is an obvious assumption from my deductive reasoning. if two guys are comparing foot pounds of energy with one caliber or gun vs another it has to be assumed that all the energy is being absorbed in each target otherwise the test is null and void.

The argument is a total waste of time is all I'm saying if the other factors are not considered also when it comes to whats lethal vs what's not.

There has been discussion concerning the military how it wants to wound its victims rather than kill them.

I personally am not interested in going to court for shooting someone trying to assault me therefore I don't desire to wound them.

I would prefer to give a warning shot if it's not too risky whereas a nice loud report would be more desirable but if plan b comes into play then it's all about taking them out permanently so they don't haunt me later.
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Old July 8, 2013, 09:49 AM   #66
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Just so everyone knows, I was not responding to the videos, in my post, #31. I know Colin makes light of some things in his videos. I was responding to other posts, and pointing out some things that I think are important.

A 45 has some advantages, and some disadvantages. I prefer a 9mm overall.
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Old July 8, 2013, 10:36 AM   #67
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I carry 9mm because;
I know it works.
Economical choice at one point lol.
Mag capacity. Has nothing to do with marksmanship. Mainly the effects of adrenaline or drugs.
Also has nothing to do with weight or pistol size, as I carry full sized pistols. A beefy 9mm with some weight can put several rounds in one place quickly.
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Old July 8, 2013, 01:27 PM   #68
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I carry a .40 glock 23 with Buffalo Bores 135 gr pills. 675 ft lbs of energy is hard to argue with.
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Old July 9, 2013, 05:56 AM   #69
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I carry a 9mm because I can get my sights back on line quicker for a second shot. I also shoot them more accurately than a .45. And last but not least the cost of 9mm ammo allows me to practice a lot more than if I owned a .45. I plan on owning a .45 one day, I like them. But for now a 9mm is more practical for me. This argument will never end. Carry what you want and don't try to force your opinions on other people. How many of us have personally shot enough people with a 9mm and a .45 to form a statistically valid opinion of which caliber is best for self-defense.
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Old July 9, 2013, 07:26 AM   #70
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Meh, I own them all (27 handgun collection). The most important factor is that you have a gun on you when you need it.

My favorite EDC that does it all.
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Old July 9, 2013, 08:51 AM   #71
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The difference between 45 and 9mm is .094.
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Old July 9, 2013, 10:22 AM   #72
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Colion Noir would have a lot more credibility if he was wearing a Reds cap.
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Old July 9, 2013, 11:05 AM   #73
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Re: The real difference between those who carry .45 acp and 9mm

If I miss or don't hit them the first time, I don't want to try and shoot through what's he's hiding behind with a 9mm as he's shooting back!
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Old July 9, 2013, 11:07 AM   #74
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Re: The real difference between those who carry .45 acp and 9mm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystro View Post
Meh, I own them all (27 handgun collection). The most important factor is that you have a gun on you when you need it.

My favorite EDC that does it all.
Agreed, why I'm considering dropping to a 3.5 inch so I might actually carry it!
My 5" Kimber grand raptor is great for the car but too much gun to carry everywhere and try to keep concealed.
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Old July 9, 2013, 11:12 AM   #75
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Choose whichever you think might work better:

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