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Old July 2, 2013, 09:06 PM   #1
chipchip
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Ruger vs Winchester

Between the two guns which would be more accurate. I'm talking standard sporting models. M77 Hawkeye vs Winchester 70 Featherwieght.
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Old July 2, 2013, 09:07 PM   #2
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Re: Ruger vs Winchester

I bet you wouldn't be able to tell much of a difference after working up a load with each. They are both fine guns.
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Old July 3, 2013, 12:09 AM   #3
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^^^+1

Both should be ~moa out of the box.
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Old July 3, 2013, 06:36 AM   #4
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I've owned several of both. All of the Featherweights beat all of the Rugers by a narrow margin. Both were more than capable of getting the job done.

Quote:
I'm talking standard sporting models. M77 Hawkeye vs Winchester 70 Featherwieght.
Actually not. Winchester offers a Sporter that is very comparable to the Ruger Hawkeye. The Featherweight has a smaller diameter barrel to keep weight down. Ruger doesn't offer anything comparable. Comparing the Winchester Sporter to the Hawkeye my Winchesters have been more accurte by a little wider margin than either the FWT or Hawkeye.

Not knocking the Ruger. It is still one of my favorites, and I think they offer plenty of accurcy for most hunting situations. I've just not found them to be quite as accurte as other brands I've owned.

Here are some typical Ruger groups @ 100 & 200 yards from my rifle.



While that is just fine, here are some from my Winchesters and Kimber.

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Old July 3, 2013, 09:05 AM   #5
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Kimber it is Nice groups sir, all of them.
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Old July 3, 2013, 09:10 AM   #6
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it's 6 of one half a dozen of the other.

both are equally accurate in their standard forms.

the winchester is lighter but that also means heavier felt recoil.

Ruger is made in america while I think winchesters are now coming from Japan but don't quote me on that.

I much prefer rugers to winchesters. I own an M77 MKII, my brother owns 3, my brother in law owns one as well, we all started out with remingtons and winchesters and we just got converted over the years.
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Old July 3, 2013, 09:19 AM   #7
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A featherweight rifle is not a target rifle nor should we expect it to be. My match M1a weighs over 12 pounds, my Match AR15, 17 pounds, my match bolt guns have to be more than twelve pounds. Walking the 1000 yards to the Pitts at Vaile, my shoulder burns carrying one of these . I would never go hunting with one, and I don’t need target accuracy when hunting. A feather weight will shoot inside an unsupported hold, unless you are one of the top ten shooters in the US. So, just what do you want to do with this rifle and how good of a shot are you?

If you are a bench shooter, accuracy using a 400 pound concrete bench as a rest is a hugely different from when you shoot unsupported.

Just this weekend I shot an Across the Course the course match squadded with a guy who had never shot in a match and he thought it was a F class match. His heavy barrel AR had a scope and bipod. Standing, his scope zero was 8 MOA down at 200 yards from his 200 yard bench rest zero. He was surprised, I was not. Bench rest zeros are way different from unsupported zeros. He finally got to shoot a bi pod at 300 yard prone rapid fire. His first ten shots at 300 prone exceeded the total score of 40 rounds shooting standing and sitting. He also shot a HM score with the bipod at 600 yards on the two MOA target. Bipods make accurate shooting easy, but the brambly brush in the woody woods of the South, you are not going to see anything but underbrush ten feet in front of you in the prone position.
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Old July 3, 2013, 09:48 AM   #8
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Both would be excellent hunting rifles with better-than-acceptable accuracy. Question is which one feels better to you? Balance and ergonomics will mean more in a hunting situation than a half MOA difference in group size.
I prefer my Winchesters but I have a Ruger M77 that I installed a Timney trigger in and worked the bolt until it smoothed up considerably. It's not terribly accurate (1.5MOA, +/-) but it fits me well and it's stainless/composite construction has earned it a permanent spot on my rifle roster as a bad weather/backup rifle.
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Old July 5, 2013, 11:54 PM   #9
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I have never owned a Ruger 77 so I can only really speak for the Model 70 Featherweight on the range. My new 308 CRF shoots 150gr factory core-lokts right at 1" at 100 yards every time and my 150gr Speer BTSP/Varget handloads shoot right at 1/2" with boring regularity. I consider this a good shooter for a light weight hunting rifle though this is not great in comparison to some of my heavier barreled rifles, but without question that is more accuracy then I would ever need for hunting.
I would not place a bet in a 77 vs 70 accuracy contest though, the 77 is by all reports every bit as good. I can tell you my 70 has a smoother action and trigger then a 77, little nick nack refinement has never been the 77s strong suit. Only complaints I have with the Winchester/FN is the chamber is a little rough so it keeps scaring my brass, and for some odd reason it does not like 165gr bullet at all, 150s and 180s both shoot really good....... confusing.
If you want to see how accurate a featherweight rifle can be check out a Tikka T3, mine is 6.25lbs and shoots one fracking hole with regular off the shelf SSTs and RL19, I have owned a bunch of rifles many of them heavier guns but I have yet to meet it's equal at the range. That said no pushfeed has the personality of a Mauser style action.
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Old July 6, 2013, 02:46 PM   #10
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Kachok. Have you tried playing with the seating depth when using those 165 gr. bullets. The 165 gr. Speer Hot-Core has been a tack driver in my M70 hybrid. A Winchester M70 Youth Ranger that I stuck in a Ramline stock I had laying around. Normally when I do my part groups will run around .75" or slightly smaller. Those are 5 shot groups BTW. Not bad when you figure all it cost me was a one dollar raffle ticket. In my Ruger M77 RSI though, the best it will do is 1.25" and it took me over 2 years to find that load.
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Old July 6, 2013, 03:37 PM   #11
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I've handled a lot of Ruger 77's and M70 Winchesters, and I can only say that I like the balance of the Winchester much better. Winchesters balance at the front receiver ring where the Ruger receiver is heavier and the balance shifts toward the rear receiver ring, and that isn't where I like my rifles to balance. Other than that I've never seen an accuracy advantage between the two. However, make mine Winchester.
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Old July 6, 2013, 06:20 PM   #12
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Out of the box stock with factory ammo,between the 2 you ask about it would be the Ruger.

The best out of the box stock with factory ammo Browning A-bolt which is sub 1" groups at 100 yards..

When someone tells you it's Browning and then the rest .. well they mean it.

Of four centerfire rifles suitable for hunting whitetails, Ruger’s M77R Mark II and Browning’s Medallion A-Bolt II nudge out models from Remington and Winchester.

http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/apr97FT270.html
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Old July 6, 2013, 11:09 PM   #13
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Yes Paul I have played with the seating depth, and tried a dozen different powders, 8 different bullets in a hundred + combinations. Never got any better then 1.25" groups (165gr SGK HP/Big Game with Remington Brass) My 150gr and 180 bullets went sub-MOA first time out, I have just come to accept that my 308 does not like 165-168gr for whatever reason and I am OK with that if I want 165s shooting .5 MOA I will break out my 30-06 which shoots them just fine with IMR/H4350.
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Old July 8, 2013, 03:28 AM   #14
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Another 1 for both what ever fits you better.
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Old July 15, 2013, 11:07 PM   #15
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Ruger vs Winchester

I just picked up a Hawkeye in 280 Remington last year and find the accuracy to be comparable to my Featherweight 25.06. Neither is the best that I have but plenty good enough for hunting deer sized game. Admittedly I haven't played with the Hawkeye as much as the Featherweight but it seems to be user friendly.
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Old July 16, 2013, 12:21 AM   #16
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I own Rugers. I like (most) Rugers.

But... of the current offerings, I would take the Winchester ... so long as the price difference doesn't matter.

Winchester's current M70 production is decent, but the Hawkeye is big step down from the previous Ruger M77 (the 77 Mk II). It's loose. It's rough. Fit and finish suck. And Ruger did it all on purpose, to increase profits (minimize manufacturing costs, while increasing sale price).

My safe would get the Winchester.
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Old July 16, 2013, 10:24 AM   #17
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Most of my bolt-action rifles are now Rugers. I've found them all to be plenty accurate and I like their classic looks, ruggedness and handling properties. Nothing wrong with the Model 70, the "Rifleman's Rifle", though (which, last I heard, are still being made in America). The choice between the two rifles, as many have said, might come down to personal, subjective reasons, rather than any intrinsic accuracy advantage one has over the other.
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Old July 16, 2013, 01:09 PM   #18
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Over the years I have had several Ruger bolt action rifles. I kept two because a family member gave one to me and because I would take too much of a beating on the other to sell it. I now have an American and its ok. Back to the 77's, in my opinion, they are some of the prettiest pieces of junk to ever role off an assembly line. They are beautiful, but they are scatterguns. My most notorious Ruger is my 77 Ruger custom heavy barrel in 6ppc. It was supposed to be a rifle built to "match tolerances." The stupid thing will barely and I do mean barely shoot sub MOA. In all honesty you have to work very hard to make a 6 PPC shoot that bad. I have done everything to it (short of re-barrel) and the stupid thing wont shoot. I will eventually re-barrel it, but its not high on my priority list at the moment. I had a .22-250 M77 that had the chamber cut off square. I owned several others that just shot like dogs.
I have a safe full of Winchester bolt rifles in various configurations and love every one of them.
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Old July 16, 2013, 02:48 PM   #19
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I have both in different calibers....Although I prefer the model 70..There is little difference in the accuracy of either....
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Old July 20, 2013, 05:45 AM   #20
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Don't forget the Remington 700 & Howa 1500 (Weatherby Vanguard). They both outshot the Ruger 77 (at least for me).
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Old July 21, 2013, 11:37 AM   #21
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Winchester.
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Old July 21, 2013, 10:29 PM   #22
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I really wanted a Hawkeye until I held a few of them and looked real close. The Winchesters are a BIG step up in my opinion.
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Old July 23, 2013, 04:16 PM   #23
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I own both and when you find a load that they like they will both perform very well.

Last edited by 02bigdogs17; July 23, 2013 at 04:23 PM.
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