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Old June 29, 2013, 01:34 PM   #1
Metal god
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What makes the 30-06 less accurate then the 308 or any other round for that matter .

I got a question

Why is it the 30-06 is not so accurate ? I don't understand what makes this round so inferior to the 308 when it comes to accuracy .

Why is the 300 WM accurate and the 30-06 not so ?

If all things being equal , Rifle , bullet , worked up load . why is the 30-06 less accurate ?

Is the 300WM just about the same round . Same bullet-ish , same velocity-ish

I'm sure there are other 30cal rounds that are very accurate why no love for the 30-06 when it comes to UBER accuracy ?
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Old June 29, 2013, 01:44 PM   #2
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I dont know what your talking about? The .30-06's I have had have all shot as well as my .308's.

I have heard that the shorter powder burn of the .308 makes it more accurate, but I havent seen it.
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Old June 29, 2013, 01:50 PM   #3
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me too, no freaking clue where OP is coming from. I have a M77 MKII in 30-06, it shoots under an inch with handloads.

I used to own a 1903A4 sniper rifle, it was holes touching at times at 100 yards and is the only rifle I've been able to score consistent hits at 500 meters(550 yards) with.

some of the most accurate rifles I've ever shot were 30-06. 30-06 is better for long range application than 308 as it has higher muzzle velocity and FTLBS while losing at the exact same rate meaning whatever range you are shooting at the 30-06 is superior.
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Old June 29, 2013, 02:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
If all things being equal , Rifle , bullet , worked up load . why is the 30-06 less accurate
Simple - it's not.
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Old June 29, 2013, 02:19 PM   #5
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I pulled this off another thread from Bart B and He has said this in the past as far as the 30-06 being less accurate then the 308 . I'm finding it hard to wrap my head around as well that's why I asked .

Quote:
Whatever pill the 308 shoots, the 30-06 will do it farther and faster.
Barts reply

Quote:
I agree. 5 to 6 percent faster and further, but is it worth being 30 percent less accurate?

Remember the .308 Win. was the death knell for the .30-06 back in 1963 for short, medium and long range high power rifle competition.
Maybe he is only talking about service rifles and not bolt guns but still
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Old June 29, 2013, 03:40 PM   #6
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Not to sure about 30%. But I've found "Short & Fat" (PPC) seam to work pretty well...
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Old June 29, 2013, 03:55 PM   #7
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Some people seem to think that the short action versus the long action is what makes the 308 more accurate than the 30-06. In my rifles they shoot about the same. It depends on the shooter on a day to day shoot as to which one of mine is more accurate. The 308 is a Winchester Model 70 and my 30-06 is a Savage 110 pre-accutrigger.
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Old June 29, 2013, 04:08 PM   #8
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I think Bart was talking about F-Class rifles and no bearing on the real world of shooting. When they open the F-Class sure didn't see a rush to scope 308 so that got to tell you something.
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Old June 29, 2013, 04:54 PM   #9
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factory 'blue box' ammo from Federal, 150gr, 100yds

I was installing a Redfield AccuRange 3X9 50mm on a Savage Weather Warrior in 30-06.

No complaints....!

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...3&d=1351015954

Since most game shot with 30-06 or .308 is within a few hundred yards (generalization, I know, but mostly true...), it may be a quibble about a few tenths of an inch between the rounds. My gun and most others chambered in either round will far and away out-shoot my aging eyes and un-steady hands....
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Old June 29, 2013, 05:12 PM   #10
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You would have to be a far above average shooter firing under extremely controlled conditions to make such a statement.
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Old June 29, 2013, 05:24 PM   #11
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barts may have been a remark on the ease of shooting. some people just barely tolerate the recoil of a308 and a 30-06 can push them over the edge of developing a flinch and therefore reduce accuracy.

either way I regard such comments with contempt. there is no such thing as an inherently inaccurate cartridge. there are inherently inaccurate rifles, and cartridges with range limitations but to claim that one 30 caliber cartridge is inherently less accurate than another is simply ignorant.
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Old June 29, 2013, 06:35 PM   #12
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I believe this myth comes from a competitive shooter who switched from 30'06 to 308 and improved his score by 0.5%. Because of that half percent, the 308 will forever be 'known' as more accurate than the 30'06.

In reality there is no practical difference. I suppose the 308 has slightly less recoil which makes it slightly easier to shoot and a short action is slightly more rigid than a long action.

All in all, not even worth talking about.

The 30'06 is the superior round for hunting.
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Old June 29, 2013, 07:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
barts may have been a remark on the ease of shooting. some people just barely tolerate the recoil of a308 and a 30-06 can push them over the edge of developing a flinch and therefore reduce accuracy.
This.

What we have seen over the last 40 years is a distinct trend to lower recoiling cartridges becoming dominant in competitve circles. However, the phenomenon is asymptotic as one factors in environmental factors such as wind; that is to say, on a calm day, a shooter may win while shooting 223 Rem, while on a gusty day, the shooter with a 6.5mm cartridge may dominate.

Ther are enough factors at play that a structured test which removes the human factors is in order to conclusively prove superior accuracy of one cartridge over another.
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Old June 29, 2013, 07:32 PM   #14
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Mobuck....

Quote:
You would have to be a far above average shooter firing under extremely controlled conditions to make such a statement.
Mobuck, to which statement were you referring?
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Old June 29, 2013, 08:06 PM   #15
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The 308 Palma rifle can weight no more than 14.3 lb and you start looking at the jacket they wear
http://www.creedmoorsports.com/shop/...ting_Coat.html

If they were shooting 30-06 how much recoil would their really be.
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com...113-twist.html


They have lens in the front sight can't have them in the rear sights think is 5x on front lens.

http://www.auburnscouts.com/stalling...rightsight.htm

http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-...tallic-sights/
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Old June 29, 2013, 08:19 PM   #16
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.

IMO, "Bart" is full of horse-pukey.

In 1963, when he said the .308 put the .30-06 out to pasture, the .308 had already been around for 8-9 years - So if it was so much better, howcum it took so long ?

The .308 has an advantage over a .30-06 in only two areas:

1) It can be chambered in a short-action rifle, making that 1/2" shorter action (etc) a tad lighter to tote around.

2) When looked @ by the military, the smaller round (.308) meant that a soldier could carry more rounds of ammo for a given weight - a premium in battle.

The .30-06's I've owned/shot (about 10, over the years) all shot slugs heavier than the .308 can handle (220grs) with accuracy & aplomb.

FWIW, I've owned 4 different .308 Ruger M77's and 2 Ruger M77's + one #1 in .30-06 - and can tell you that the Ruger .308's shot groups twice as wide (at their best) as the Ruger .30-06's (one of which would go 3/4" @ 100yds w/factory 180gr ammo anytime I wanted).


.
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Old June 29, 2013, 09:16 PM   #17
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well it clearly seems the 30-06 is a very accurate round and just as accurate as any other . I sure hope I did not misrepresent Bart's point and I'm sorry if I did so . I sure hope he post on this thread soon so I can stop feeling like I threw him under the bus .
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Old June 29, 2013, 09:21 PM   #18
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The average shooter will probably never be able to tell the difference. It takes a good shooter, a good rifle and good ammo and very few people have all 3. But all things being equal a 308 will always beat a 30-06 by a small margin. That is not saying at all that the 30-06 is inaccurate. It is still one of the best. But in a world where .05" in group size can matter, the 308 offers that advantage.

There are many reasons why. Short, fat cartridges burn powder more efficiently, which also means consistency. A short fat cartridge will generate more speed with less powder and less recoil. The slight recoil reduction will make a difference over time. Shoot 100 rounds of each and at the end of the day you will always shoot the softer recoiling round a little better.

The stiffer short action rifles help too. It isn't just one thing, but when you add up several small things it starts to make a difference.
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Old June 29, 2013, 09:57 PM   #19
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Not as many people work on making a serious target rifle with the '06 as with the .308. In that arena, the .308 is just enough better to win matches, which is all that counts. Call it an R&D thing.

For hunting use, particularly with a 24" to 26" barrel and loads of equal chamber pressure, the '06 will have a higher muzzle velocity than a 20" or 22" .308. Definitely so with the heavier bullets of 180 grains.

Back when my eyes were younger, my pet '06 hunting rifle would give me ten-shot groups of just over one MOA and five-shot groups at 3/4 MOA. I never worried about anything better than that.
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Old June 29, 2013, 10:43 PM   #20
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The shooter?
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Old June 29, 2013, 10:55 PM   #21
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I stand corrected
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Old June 30, 2013, 01:59 AM   #22
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Quote:
Why is it the 30-06 is not so accurate ? I don't understand what makes this round so inferior to the 308 when it comes to accuracy .
You've taken a statement that is technically true and blown it all out of proportion. Because of its shorter case, the 308 is slightly more accurate than the 30-06, but you would only notice the difference if both were in full blown benchrest guns and the difference would be so small as to be meaningless except in formal benchrest comptition, where tiny fractions of an inch mean the difference between winning and twentieth place.

This does not mean that the 30-06 is not capable of outstanding field accuracy or that you would notice the difference in regular hunting rifles.

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Old June 30, 2013, 05:21 AM   #23
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Bart B. spoke the truth, the 308 displaced the 30-06 in terms of accuracy records. Even in the same rifle platform (M1 Garand).

The domination of the 308 in service rifle matches led to decreasing the scoring rings to what we have today. Thousands of shooters, and thousands of rifles, have given the statistical edge to the 308 over the 30-06.

Of course now the 223 is replacing the 308 accuracy records, at least for everything but 1000 yard shooting.

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Old June 30, 2013, 07:34 AM   #24
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When Palma made the 308 rifle to be used in 30 cal that end any competition on anything else being used.

Since it has no competition who's to say it's better? If it was the best why didn't US Palma scope the 308. Myself you put a lens which is available in power magnification in the front sight might as well scope the rifle then you add one of these
http://www.sinclairintl.com/optics/s...prod44975.aspx

Archery match shooters with sights can use a lens their 2x,4x,6x and 8x good ones are made by Swarovski and you can get different reticles but you can't hunt with them as their considered a scope on hand held bow. they also have matches that lens are not allowed.

I don't think it much about the 308 anymore but how far the rules and be changed.
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Old June 30, 2013, 08:22 AM   #25
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Several years ago, Remington posted a list of accuracy standards (or guarantees?) for their 40X target rifles in various chamberings. The most accurate cartridge was the .222 Remington and with each increase in caliber and case capacity, MOA increased, until it got to the .308 Win, which, they claimed was more accurate than some smaller cartridge chamberings, then it rose again with the .30-06, but I don't remember by how much.

I contend that the difference between the .308 Win and the .30-06 in sporting rifles is negligible. For instance, my '06 Rem 700 hunting rifle shot many 5/8" groups with handloaded hunting ammo and my son, who has it now, has gotten such groups shooting factory 180 grain Rem Core Locts.

Bottom line, I think is, if you're going to shoot targets more than game, choose the .308 Win because it can be loaded to accurate, lower velocities than the .30-06, producing less recoil. However, if hunting is your thing, .30-06 is KING!
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