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Old June 28, 2013, 09:14 PM   #1
Wabackwoods
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Mosin Nagant for bear defense.

Moving to Washington State on Monday. Going to be smack dab in an area filled with State Parks. Beautiful. But it's bear country.

I fully understand about garbage disposal, food storage and other preventive measures and I am also buying Bear Spray, but I have concerns about if a bear escalates or continues an attack.

The area we will be moving to is semi remote and the person we bought the home from has stated that they have had several issues with bears in the past.

Once to the point that they had to shoot one that broke into the house.

I've read up that the primary bear there is the Black Bear. I've had run in's with them in Missouri once but thankfully they backed off.

The owner claimed (and I am doubtful from what I've read from the State) that they had even seen grizzly bears there.

What I need to know is, that in a worse situation, will my Mosin Nagat do the trick in bringing down a bear if it attacks and there is no recourse but to shoot it?

I know for sure that soft point bullets are a must but was concerned that maybe the rifle was not enough. I am a Texas guy that has mainly used this rifle for cottontail hunting and the Pacific NW as well as dealing with bears is a remote experience for me until now.

Open to thoughts about this.
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Old June 28, 2013, 09:42 PM   #2
big al hunter
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What part of Washington?

Mostly just black bear here. There are a few grizzlies in eastern Washington. Either way your mosin will dispatch any critter in this state, so long as you do your part puttin the bullet where it needs to be. Don't shoot sasquatch, he is protected by law.
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Old June 28, 2013, 09:43 PM   #3
tahunua001
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I wouldn't use a mosin nagant as bear defense.

you could see grizzlies though they would be confined to the northeastern portion of the state bordering Idaho and even there they are pretty few and far between.

the idea behind bear defense is putting as much lead into a bear as possible, odds are if it's charging it's full of adrenaline and a single well placed shot to the vitals is not going to stop it as it would in a standard hunting situation. it would be necessary to take out as many limbs as possible as well as disrupt the central nervous system. a mosin nagant just is not well suited to rapid follow up shots and 5 rounds may not be enough, granted if it's in your kitchen you're only gonna have time for a couple shots anyway but I would still recommend something like a handgun, or short lever action or semi automatic carbine like Marlin 1894 or SKS. the mosin does well as a hunting rifle but I just wouldn't want to have to trust my life to one.


but if it has the bayonet attached at least you have a pike to ward it off till it bleeds to death
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Old June 28, 2013, 09:50 PM   #4
Wabackwoods
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Thanks. I am moving us to Randle, WA. We just got a house there and it's pretty rural and away from town.

I am a pretty good shot. Honed my skills in Bosnia and The Middle East.

I too was debating the need for a semi auto.

I have a nice Benelli semi auto 12 gauge. But thinking the civilian model of the M-14 for power and follow up shots. Have to save for one though. As far as a handgun goes, what do you recommend for stopping power? I do have a 1911 .45 acp Colt.
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Old June 28, 2013, 09:59 PM   #5
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the poor misbegotten russian hunters in russia. hunting those big dangerous bears all there lives with nothing more then a 91/30 or model 41 carbine, with 200 grain softpoints. god they have soo much confidence from proven usage of taking down bears that weigh 500+kilos.
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Old June 28, 2013, 10:05 PM   #6
Wabackwoods
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Good points ChaperallCat. I know it packs a punch. Like big al hunter said, as long as you know where to place them and you can hit those spots. I can imagine a bear charging you can be unnerving but I handle pressure well.
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Old June 28, 2013, 10:15 PM   #7
big al hunter
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You won't find any grizzlies in Randle. You will see elk, cougar, black tail deer and ducks. Use the shotgun with slugs if the mosin makes you nervous about follow up shots. Black bear are not that bullet proof.

Also some good fishing on the Cowlitz river and its tributaries.
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Old June 29, 2013, 12:07 AM   #8
Wabackwoods
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I am thinking that the Mosin will be fine. If anything the wife can use the 12. What part of WA are you from Al?
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Old June 29, 2013, 12:51 AM   #9
big al hunter
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Between Seattle and Tacoma. But I hunt and fish near Randle. We hope to be buying a house a little further out very soon.
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Old June 29, 2013, 01:16 AM   #10
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Quote:
the poor misbegotten russian hunters in russia. hunting those big dangerous bears all there lives with nothing more then a 91/30 or model 41 carbine, with 200 grain softpoints. god they have soo much confidence from proven usage of taking down bears that weigh 500+kilos.
I believe you've completely missed the point of the previous posts. hunting and stopping charges are two very different things. while hunting, a well placed shot destroys the vitals and prevents further circulation of oxygen, adrenaline and other necessary substances before the animal even knows that it's injured. if a bear is charging it is running on a large amount of adrenaline and this can keep it going for some time even if the vital organs are destroyed.

I killed my first bear this year with an Arisaka carbine, it has roughly the same rate of fire as the mosin nagant(little faster aided by the smoother action and being cock on close) but I would never take it outside if I had a bear ripping through my garage to get to my freezer. as the OP said, I would rather have something like a M1A, M1 garand, 1895, SKS, or some kind of handgun, preferably a 45 or bigger.
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Old June 29, 2013, 02:15 AM   #11
Wabackwoods
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big al hunter, maybe we can go hunting together sometime? Would be great to get to know a fellow hunter up there. Would be great as I have hunted only in Texas and Oklahoma so honestly, the animals up there are a bit more than I am used to. About the most dangerous animals we have in Texas are boars and mountain lions with the occasional black leopard.

We are moving up there and honestly, don't know anyone. Maybe when we get settled in we can have a BBQ and you can bring the family over.
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Old June 29, 2013, 10:09 AM   #12
big al hunter
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I believe you've completely missed the point of the previous posts. hunting and stopping charges are two very different things.
He won't be stopping charges. He will be dealing with nuisance bears that are searching for food. More like hunting, except the bears will be more accustomed to human smell and activity.

Pepper spray will stop both charges and nuisance activity. But in the rare event that he needs to remove one from a building it will be safer for him if the bear is not alive.
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Old June 29, 2013, 10:14 AM   #13
jmr40
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Buy a can of bear spray and you'll be better protected.

But if you want to use a rifle it is perfectly capable of stopping any bear on the planet. The Alaska Game and fish commission studied bear stopping rifles several years ago and came to the concluson that a 30-06 loaded with 200 gr bullets worked about as well as anything else on stopping their largest bear. Your rifle, properly loaded is every bit as good.

Also consider that the odds of ANY bear encounter are very rare. And when they do happen, they are almost always 1 year old cubs that have recently been chased away by their mothers. They sometimes struggle finding food on their own at first. They don't live long enough to be full grown 300+ lb bear by hanging around people.
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Old June 29, 2013, 10:14 AM   #14
big al hunter
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We are moving up there and honestly, don't know anyone. Maybe when we get settled in we can have a BBQ and you can bring the family over.
Private message sent
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Old June 29, 2013, 11:32 AM   #15
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Maybe you should not move there. I live in bear country. Locals are used to them and do not feel the urge to shoot every bear they see. Just this week in the newspaper I saw the next town over had two black bears walk down through town heading for the river (It is really hot right now and that is where they go). One was estimated at 400+ pounds. You have to learn to live with what is around you. Go with the pepper spray.
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Old June 29, 2013, 12:49 PM   #16
tahunua001
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Would be great as I have hunted only in Texas and Oklahoma so honestly, the animals up there are a bit more than I am used to. About the most dangerous animals we have in Texas are boars and mountain lions with the occasional black leopard.
the game in texas believe it or not is just as dangerous as up here in the northwest. Blackbears are quite skiddish and most of the ones around here don't get much bigger than wild boars. we have mountain lions up here too but they are a little better fed in most cases so they are a little less likely to go after people and pets. no black leopards or Jaguars to speak of. unless they have cubs, bears are not likely to be aggressive and as has already been stated, usually the ones breaking into peoples houses are younger and don't know any better and would likely leave just as soon as they realized they were not alone.
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Old June 29, 2013, 01:27 PM   #17
Wabackwoods
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Gunplummer, please note it was said as a last resort. No one is going to be wearing a tin foil hat and blowing holes in the wall. Hence, shooting if the last resort. Am I supposed to have tea with it if it decides to visit the living room? Not meaning to be sharp but you were.
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Old June 29, 2013, 01:43 PM   #18
tahunua001
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snarky remarks aside, I think this conversation can still continue in a fairly civilized manner.

as for people letting bears wander through town because they were here first is NOT something that is common. the last time there was a bear in town near here it walked right up to a school and rather than calling fish and game to traq it and remove it some dumb cop that wouldn't know the difference between a shotgun shell and a blank opened up with an AR15 and FMJs and after 2 magazine dumps it finally dropped. it wasn't the best option but it was better than letting the bear wait around for the 4 o clock bells and snack on some 1st grader that's only seen cuddly bears at the circus.

Bears, Cougars, even moose can be dangerous in an urban environment and nobody in their right mind would think of saying that it would be best to just let it go about it's merry way when it should be relocated for it's own protection as much as for the community's protection.
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Old June 29, 2013, 03:19 PM   #19
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the poor misbegotten russian hunters in russia. hunting those big dangerous bears all there lives with nothing more then a 91/30 or model 41 carbine, with 200 grain softpoints. god they have soo much confidence from proven usage of taking down bears that weigh 500+kilos.
In Russia, they call bear hunters who use Mosin Nagants "dearly departed". Be serious. They have much more capable cartridges for large bear in Russia.

As far as bears around Randle, they are smallish black bears. I have hunted the area many times. The area is growing up with "retirement ranches" now, and the city transplants like the wildlife, at least until they mess up their flower beds or garbage cans. In particular, the bears in that area are garbage hounds, and will squawl and woof at you and try to scare you away. A rock thrown will usually make them evaporate. A 200 pounder in that area would be a large one, although there is wilderness not too far away where you might run into larger bears.
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Old June 29, 2013, 03:26 PM   #20
tahunua001
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In Russia, they call bear hunters who use Mosin Nagants "dearly departed". Be serious. They have much more capable cartridges for large bear in Russia.
7.62x54R is comparable to .308 more than enough for even large russian bears. a mosin isn't what I'd take but over there it was the gold standard for over 50 years. nowadays they have a better selection but I bet it is still very widely used.
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Old June 29, 2013, 09:56 PM   #21
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If more people would let them go their merry way, they would. There are more people killed by black bears in the U.S. than by Browns or Grizzlies. Some were just unlucky and surprised them, most were just stupid. It is really quite common to see bears cutting through the towns around here. If they tree in town, you get the Game Warden. I don't know, we have been bow hunting and hiking around here for years without carrying a rifle and half a can of ammo with us. One year I saw more bears bow hunting than I did deer. I am more worried about being bitten by a rattler than a bear. You don't take them for granted, but you have to get used to them.
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Old June 29, 2013, 10:25 PM   #22
tahunua001
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There are more people killed by black bears in the U.S. than by Browns or Grizzlies.
do you have a source for this information? in the last 2-3 years when I actually started paying attention to such things I have run across about a half dozen bear mauling stories and all involved grizzlies.
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Old June 29, 2013, 10:31 PM   #23
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Plenty of rifle if you like the rifle. I am personally not partial to Mosin Nagants.

Handgun.... many like the 10mm (Glock in particular), but I would prefer a revolver in either 41 or 44 mag. I'd keep some "bear loads" around.
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Old June 29, 2013, 10:35 PM   #24
big al hunter
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I don't have a source, without doing a Google search, but I also have read many times ( in reputable sources) that black bear attacks outnumber grizzly. However a grizzly mauling makes news, a black bear mauling, not so much.
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Old June 29, 2013, 11:43 PM   #25
tahunua001
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that doesn't make sense. a bear attack is a bear attack. a 200 pound black bear will kill you just as dead as a grizzly. they still require fish and game to hunt down the problem bear, they still leave an obit in the paper.

that's like saying that Steve Irwin's death wouldn't have made headlines if he was killed by a great white shark instead of a sting ray.
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