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Old July 11, 2013, 09:52 AM   #51
seeker_two
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Instead of speed strips, I prefer to use SKS stripper clips. Each clip holds ten rounds, and you can load a revolver as quick (or even quicker, with practice) as a speed strip. Easier to tuck in a pocket or waistband, too.

One thing to consider.....in a home invasion, you may have the ammo for a reload....but you may not have the time to reload. In that case, a second weapon might be a life-saver.
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Old July 11, 2013, 10:27 AM   #52
45_auto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotchman
All these people saying 5 rounds will be enough are lying to themselves.
It's been enough for me every time (8 years sheriff deputy) when I needed it, and also enough for a cousin of mine the one time when she needed it.

How many situations have you been in where it wasn't enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scotchman
Read up on recent crime trends; the pattern is multiple people breaking into your house together.
Around here the trend is still a single person committing B&E's (breaking and entering) or burglaries. Multiple aggressors are very rare. The FBI crime stats show the same thing. Where are you getting your statistics on the number of multiple vs single break-ins? Links would be helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scotchman
Honestly, the revolver does not shine as a primary concealed carry weapon and/or a primary home defense weapon.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the type of weapon (revolver or semi-auto) you happen to have available if you ever need it is one of the most un-important factors in a self-defense situation and fades to irrelevance. Situational awareness, training, and mindset far overshadow weapon choices.

However, for internet warrior purposes, it is much easier to compare number of bullets, reload times, potential number of aggressors, ammo power (ft-lb), barrier penetration, flatness of trajectory, etc. Carry on.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtlumpy
That 8 round shotgun would probably be beyond what most would consider "short barreled".
scotchman: How so? A 18.5" pump shotgun with factory magazine extension will hold 6+1 or 7+1. A 20" can easily get up to 8+1. 18" is the shortest a shotgun can legally be without being an NFA item.
Most people on here would probably consider a "short barreled shotgun (SBS)" to be less than 18", or a "short barreled rifle (SBR)" to be less than 16", per the standard ATF definitions.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/nati...-shotguns.html

Last edited by 45_auto; July 11, 2013 at 10:43 AM.
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Old July 11, 2013, 10:40 AM   #53
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Quote:
Quote:
That 8 round shotgun would probably be beyond what most would consider "short barreled".


How so? A 18.5" pump shotgun with factory magazine extension will hold 6+1 or 7+1. A 20" can easily get up to 8+1. 18" is the shortest a shotgun can legally be without being an NFA item.
My 18" 870 holds 5 rounds of 2 3/4. The Mossberg 500 one less. By my math, 8 rounds lf 2 3/4 = 22 inches in the tube. I'm considering a 22" shotgun to no longer be short barrel. That's all.


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Old July 11, 2013, 10:55 AM   #54
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Quote:
Around here the trend is still a single person committing B&E's (breaking and entering) or burglaries. Multiple aggressors are very rare.
It may be rare but it happened to my in-laws on Tuesday. Husband out of town, wife out running errands. What we have pieced together so far: Neighbor says two guys knocked on her door asking if they can clean her gutters. They were in a blue pickup with a third person inside. She declines and they move on down the street. They probably knocked on my in-laws house and getting no answer they attempt to break in the front door. Not able to get it open they move to the back yard and break in the house by kicking in the french doors. Another neighbor spots a blue pickup backed up to the front door with a woman standing around smoking a cigarette and assumed it was the maid. They got away with all the jewelry, 2 televisions and all the family silver.

Now, what would have happened had she been home and just not answered the door because she was in the back and didn't hear the bell? It happens all the time when we go over. Have to call on the phone to get her to come to the door. She would have been surprised by three attackers. Were it me confronting them, I would want more than 5 rounds at my disposal. Break into my house and I'll have 17 rounds available to come your way and maybe 34 if I grab the second magazine.

So, it may be rare by your statistics but it does happen.
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Old July 11, 2013, 02:51 PM   #55
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Yeah well my bet is that those burglars would be running through fences after the first shot from a five shot revolver....
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I think that one of the notions common to the anti-gunner is the idea that being a victim is 'noble'; as if it is better to be noble in your suffering than disruptive in your own defense.
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Old July 11, 2013, 03:06 PM   #56
45_auto
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Quote:
Break into my house and I'll have 17 rounds available to come your way and maybe 34 if I grab the second magazine.
Break into my house and I'll have at least 5 rounds available depending on where I am. If it comes to the point where I start grabbing magazines they won't be pistol magazines, and I'll have several thousand rounds available.

Quote:
So, it may be rare by your statistics but it does happen.
Somebody denied that it happened? It happened right here in New Orleans east last year:

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/...entists_s.html

We also had a car crash through the front of a house in New Orleans east in almost the same location:

http://www.wwltv.com/news/local/Fami...215049751.html

You think I ought to put up crash bars and spike strips in my front yard to protect me from cars hitting my house?

Some people understand statistics and probabilities, and prepare their responses accordingly.

Some people don't understand them, and carry iron umbrellas in case a meteorite or piece of a space ship falls on their head.

You'll have to decide what's comfortable for you.

Last edited by 45_auto; July 11, 2013 at 03:16 PM.
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Old July 11, 2013, 03:24 PM   #57
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Sgt Lumpy's rule of MVA locations...

When you're dispatched to an MVA at a specific address, as opposed to "Taylor Street west of Washington", it means there's either a drunk or a fleeing criminal now attached to said house.


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Old July 11, 2013, 03:53 PM   #58
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Quote:
Some people don't understand them [statistics and probabilities], and carry iron umbrellas in case a meteorite or piece of a space ship falls on their head.
Destined to be one of the top 10 all time greatest quotes on TFL.
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I think that one of the notions common to the anti-gunner is the idea that being a victim is 'noble'; as if it is better to be noble in your suffering than disruptive in your own defense.
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Old July 11, 2013, 04:01 PM   #59
southjk
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Quote:
You think I ought to put up crash bars and spike strips in my front yard to protect me from cars hitting my house?Some people understand statistics and probabilities, and prepare their responses accordingly.

Some people don't understand them, and carry iron umbrellas in case a meteorite or piece of a space ship falls on their head.
Holy cow, hyperbole much? My point was that it does happen so if it is easy to prepare for something that is possible to happen then why not prepare? Notice I said easy. I've never seen anyone carry an iron umbrella and never seen them sold so a link would be appreciated. If they did I think they would be too heavy and unwieldy if they were to afford any kind of protection from a meteorite. And if it's easy and cheap for you to install crash bars and spike strips then I say go for it. Again, just because it's rare doesn't mean it can't happen to you. I don't think telling my MIL that those kinds of thing rarely happen will make her feel better about loosing all her valuables.
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Old July 11, 2013, 09:26 PM   #60
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Quote:
Quote:
Some people don't understand them [statistics and probabilities], and carry iron umbrellas in case a meteorite or piece of a space ship falls on their head.
Destined to be one of the top 10 all time greatest quotes on TFL.
Hope not....otherwise, how will all those "tactical" gun companies stay in business?....
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Old July 11, 2013, 09:43 PM   #61
Onward Allusion
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Quote:
val567
Question about Speedloaders for revolvers
If you must have a revolver for home defense, I'd get the S&W 327 TRR8 or the Taurus 608. 8 shots of 357 mag should do the trick in most HD situations. If not, then there's always the NY reload.

For conceal carry, 5 shots should be enough. I personally carry a 7 shot P-32 and my plan is to shoot and run like hell to get out of the situation.
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Old July 11, 2013, 10:24 PM   #62
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As for "short" shotguns, it's a 20" minimum in NZ. I had a Magtech 586 when I lived in the UK that was 8+1 (if you stayed away from 3" shells) that was very usable in Practical Shotgun shoots. Not sure how it would cope in a close combat situation, but I can't believe that the extra inches on a 20" barrel would make a whole lot of difference how it would handle, I'd rather have the extra length and the extra shell.
But if 7+1 or 8+1 is not enough then buy an AA-12.

As a matter of interest, has anyone here (private citizen not law enforcement) ever been involved in a firefight with thieves in their home or out on the streets?

Cheers
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Old July 12, 2013, 12:04 AM   #63
SgtLumpy
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Quote:
As for "short" shotguns, it's a 20" minimum in NZ.
Well there you go. Then it is indeed different there than in the US. Then 8+1 in a 22" would be short.


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Old July 12, 2013, 08:38 PM   #64
t4terrific
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Question about Speedloaders for revolvers

Quote:
Originally Posted by val567 View Post
Question about speed-loaders for revolvers. Anyone have a solution to this problem?



Refer to the picture for a view of a standard revolver speedloader.

I have a revolver that has only 5 shots. Yes I plan to practice more, but when someone breaks into my house at 4AM, it is dark, I just woke up, am groggy, scared, shaking, and they are trying to move / dodge, quite frankly I don't trust myself enough that 5 shots will do the trick to make contact.

The argument could be made that if the assaulter is not either 1) on the floor, or 2) running by the end of the 5th shot, they are a fool, but I would really prefer not to rely on that, especially if the scenario involves the assaulter being on drugs downtown or something.

Therefore, I need a way to get more ammo into that arm as fast as possible if I run out. I could have a pocket full of bullets and load them into the revolver 1-2 at a time taking up precious seconds, or use one of those speed loaders.

Here is my problem though: Honestly, those speed loaders for revolvers aren't a really great solution. I mean consider that they are still going to sit, uncomfortably, heavily in your pocket at random angles like some weirdly shaped rock, scraping into your phone or whatever else you have in there, getting lead on stuff, wearing out your pocket faster, and if you need them, you are going to have to dig past everything else first.

If it takes me as long to get to my bullets as it takes me to get to my keys sometimes, I could be dead!

After over 100 years of revolvers, do we REALLY not have a better solution that is good for MAINTAINING CONCEALMENT on a revolver (read as bullets NOT being attached to your belt or clearly visible) while offering a more ideal quick reloading solution than hauling around these uncomforable / hard to reach things in our pockets?

Please, if you know of a better solution, let me know because I need it!

PS. Please don't say, "Buy a semi automatic autoloader, then you can have 15 or so shots." I would really prefer to stay with the revolver if at all possible for a variety of other perfectly legitimate reasons.
Just move back i with your Dad. Let him worry about your protection.
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Old July 12, 2013, 11:31 PM   #65
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There is one lesson I learnt in a harsh life: no two fights are the same and it is better to be overprepared than unprepared.
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