The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 27, 2013, 06:56 PM   #1
Freebird
Junior Member
 
Join Date: June 6, 2011
Posts: 5
body Die problems

Hi all, I have shot my 6.5 Creedmoor cases 4 times now and they were beginning to get tight in the chamber. (neck sizing only) I bought a Redding body die to put 1-2 tho bump on the shoulder to help chambering. Anyway, my problem is that the brass is going into the die REALLY rough with tons of chatter and it takes a lot of force. When I pull the case out it looks shaved and there are a bunch of filings gathered at the neck to shoulder junction. I have tried 4 different types of lube (Imperial wax and mica, a spray lube and the RCBS lube on the pad) all with the same results. Any thoughts? Maybe the Die was cut too small?

Inside of the die has been cleaned and looks fine and the brass has been tumbled.

Thanks

Chris

Last edited by Freebird; June 28, 2013 at 10:39 AM. Reason: Terminology
Freebird is offline  
Old June 27, 2013, 07:53 PM   #2
Bart B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Posts: 4,893
What's the diameter of your die's neck sizing element?

Is is about 2 thousandths smaller than a loaded round's neck?
__________________
US Navy Distinguished Marksman Badge 153
Former US Navy & Palma Rifle Team Member
NRA High Power Master & Long Range High Master
NRA Smallbore Prone Master
Bart B. is online now  
Old June 27, 2013, 08:14 PM   #3
Eppie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2010
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 799
We need more information to help you.

1. The type of brass that you are using.
2. Info on the kind of bullet.
3. Type of rifle, bolt or semi.

My guess is that your brass necks have gotten thicker from repeated firings and you have a choice of either "outside neck turning" or get new brass.
Check this video

Take your calipers and measure a case neck thickness in 4 places so that you get an average neck case thickness.

(average neck thickness x 2) + bullet diameter = case neck diameter

You may be able to chamber the round, but after it's fired it has too little space to expand and gets stuck.
__________________
"Socialized Medicine is the Keystone to the Arch of the Socialist State.” -Vladimir Lenin
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson (An early warning to Obama care)
Eppie is offline  
Old June 27, 2013, 09:45 PM   #4
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,791
The Redding bump die shouldn't be touching the neck at all. Sized or not, it doesn't touch the neck. If it is, that's your problem.

Otherwise, how far into the die does the brass get before it starts scraping?
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old June 27, 2013, 10:07 PM   #5
higgite
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2010
Posts: 266
Somebody help me out here. I'm easily confused. I can't find any reference to a Redding bump die on their website or by googling it. Are we talking about a Redding body die?
higgite is offline  
Old June 27, 2013, 10:34 PM   #6
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,791
Yes, it's a body die.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old June 27, 2013, 11:31 PM   #7
Freebird
Junior Member
 
Join Date: June 6, 2011
Posts: 5
Thanks for the replies. Correct, it is a body die so the neck is not being sized at all, I am just trying to push the shoulder back. Brass is Hornady fired 4 times through a 6.5 creedmoor bolt gun. The brass goes in about 1/4 and then jams up. I can force it and it sizes it just takes way to much effort and chatters so much it makes me wonder. I tried to size a few and got very inconsistent lengths. A couple bumped back correctly and a couple actually got 1tho longer.

Measured with a comparator.

Thanks again.
Freebird is offline  
Old June 28, 2013, 10:30 AM   #8
F. Guffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Posts: 2,660
Bump die, I can not help it. Bump sounds like a word/means to describe an accident, beyond bump is a New England term called stove, when used in a sentence to describe an accident in nautical terms: “He pulled out in front of me and I “stoved” in his port side with my bow.

Still, I can not bump a shoulder of a case without the die contacting the neck and body first and then, finally, the shoulder, contacting the shoulder first without case body support causes the body to be rendered scrap, or it causes the case to squat, or it causes the case to collapse like an accordion or bellows etc..

Yes, there is a lot of advise, most of the advise comes from someone trying to sell something, then there are reloaders that purchased a tool and believes everyone should have one. The ‘bump die???’ as indicated does not touch the neck, and that is it, no more wisdom beyond that? There is, if the die does not contact the neck, it does not contact all of the shoulder, if the die does not contact all of the shoulder logic says there is a chance the bump die could turn into a do-nut making machine.

I use the versatile full length sizer die, with the versatile full length sizer die I can neck size, with the versatile full length sizer die I can size cases to any length between the shoulder and head of the case without Redding competition Shell holders, and, I can size cases for short chamber without grinding the top of the shell holder or bottom of the die.

I have never found it necessary to fire a case until it is fully grown, I determine the length of the chamber first from the shoulder/datum to the bolt face.

F. Guffey
F. Guffey is offline  
Old June 28, 2013, 10:40 AM   #9
F. Guffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Posts: 2,660
“I can force it and it sizes it just takes way to much effort and chatters so much it makes me wonder”

I clean my dies with a towel on a dowel, a very bad habit starts with cleaning dies with degreaser, my dies season? with use, starting over everyday by cleaning a die like it was a greases backing plate, drum or disc to bare metal makes no sense, if I cleaned my dies with methods described on the Internet I would expect my dies to cause a case to make ‘that chattering sound like fingers being pulled out of a set of Chinese finger/handcuffs.

F. Guffey

Last edited by F. Guffey; June 28, 2013 at 10:41 AM. Reason: change did to die
F. Guffey is offline  
Old June 28, 2013, 12:05 PM   #10
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,791
First thing I'd do is put some Flitz polish on a bore mop that fits tight in the die and run it in and out with a cordless drill for about 20-25 seconds. You really can't hurt the thing with Flitz and it will give it a mirror finish. If there are gouges/grooves it won't help them but otherwise it will give a smooth surface for the lube to work better.

You can easily tell if the die is made wrong. Measure one of the sized cases and see if it meets SAAMI spec.

Also, see if your chamber is over-sized by measuring the fired brass against the SAAMI chamber standard.

Both standards are here.
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old June 28, 2013, 12:26 PM   #11
Freebird
Junior Member
 
Join Date: June 6, 2011
Posts: 5
Thanks for all the replies. Brian good call on the polish, I'll give it a try!!
Freebird is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08722 seconds with 9 queries