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Old June 24, 2013, 11:25 AM   #1
Bake
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Are all 870"s the same?

Except for finish (wood & metal) are all 870's pretty much the same? Over the years I've shot skeet (Blued Wingmaster, field [?] butt stock & with a 26" Target barrel), shot trap (same Wingmaster, but changed the stock & barrel), and I've shot "3"gun (before it was called "3" gun), with the same gun, (changes the stock back to a field/skeet, & used an 18" barrel). After 20 years (no telling how many rounds) of this treatment, it still "Good-to-G0", for HD.

I guess my question is, could Remington 870 Express be expected to do the same? Do all 870's pass the same "QC", made of the same metal, and made on the same assemble line, and by the same people with the same parts?
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Old June 24, 2013, 11:41 AM   #2
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The Police models are built in a different area of the Ilion factory and are held to much higher standards, I believe the same is true for Wingmasters. The P models do have a few upgraded internal parts to make them more durable. As for the Express line, a lot of people end up having to polish the chamber, but after that and perhaps a couple of inexpensive parts upgrades, they've got a great, very slick shotgun.
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Old June 24, 2013, 12:27 PM   #3
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I've seen several posts from people having rust isues on the Express models.
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Old June 24, 2013, 12:52 PM   #4
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I'm not sure on the QC side, but the 870 Special Purpose (I think that was its name) has a shorter mag tube than some old Wingmasters.
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Old June 24, 2013, 01:54 PM   #5
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Not the Special Purpose, but Special Field. The Special Field came with a straight english style grip, 21" Remchoke barrel and the mag tube was shortened to look right with the shorter barrel. I think the tubes only held 3 without the plug vs 4 on all others.

The Special Purpose were a series designed for special purposes rather than an all around gun. They offered a waterfowl version, turkey hunting version and slug gun designed for big game.
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Old June 24, 2013, 01:58 PM   #6
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That could well be it, jmr40. I always have trouble remembering the exact name.
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Old June 24, 2013, 02:03 PM   #7
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I've seen several posts from people having rust isues on the Express models.
Yeah, and I've seen posts from folks who don't like Glocks, and posts from other folks who have issues with revolvers. This is the internet, anything is possible. That said, I've been running an Express for over a decade without any issues. It's my cruiser shotgun, with a 20" rifle sight barrel, and I qualify and shoot it regularly. There's nothing particularly wrong with the Express 870 that normal care and cleaning won't take care of. YEah, it's the lower end of the Remington pumps, but with minimal care, they serve well.
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Old June 24, 2013, 04:47 PM   #8
PetahW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bake

I guess my question is, could Remington 870 Express be expected to do the same?
Do all 870's pass the same "QC", made of the same metal, and made on the same assemble line, and by the same people with the same parts?


To answer your question - Yes, pretty much.

An 870 is an 870 is an 870..................... .

The exception is that some models utilized slightly different parts, whether due to gauge or model specifications/differences.





.
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Old June 24, 2013, 08:48 PM   #9
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PawPaw, you are correct - it could just have been flukes. However, the other side of that is that I don't recall any posts about rust issues with 870 Wingmasters during normal use or storage. I'm thinking that perhaps that parkerized finish is going to require a little more care than the blued finish.
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Old June 25, 2013, 05:46 AM   #10
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The "matte" finish on Expresses is NOT Parkerizing. Whole 'nother animal. Check Wikipedia. Decent Parkerizing is not cheap.
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Old June 25, 2013, 11:24 AM   #11
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The finish on an Express is just a regular salt blue on an un finished barrel surface... Rusts like a bugger... Have to keep them out of humidity unless oil is on the bluing...

It just don't wipe dry easily like bluing on a smooth barrel...

Brent
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Old June 25, 2013, 04:30 PM   #12
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I have had an 870 Express for two years and had minimal rust issues ( some light surface rust when it was handled by some idiots and I didn't wipe it down before putting it away, which rust was removed by wiping down with a light oil), but I am in a dry climate. There have been plenty of reports of rust issues from humid climates. While they are more likely to develop rust in high humidity, I have also heard it isn't a problem if upon getting an 870 Express you give it a good soaking with certain oils that penetrate into the pores of the less finished metal surfaces.
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Old June 25, 2013, 08:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Are all 870's the same?
The answer is yes and no.

I believe the basic design of the 870 action is the same for all models.

The individual components vary among the many models that have been made over the years as well as the various models available today.

I currently own five 870's and no two are identical: An original Wingmaster 12 ga., an original Wingmaster 20 ga.; a Special Purpose 12 ga. Magnum with a camo synthetic stock; a Special Purpose 12 ga. Magnum with a black synthetic stock, cantilever scope mount & rifled barrel; and an Express 12 ga. Magnum with a black synthetic stock & extended magazine (which I refer to as a home defense model).

They will all rust unless properly cared for.
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Old June 25, 2013, 09:26 PM   #14
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I have an 870 Wingmaster that was bought in the mid 90's, back when they had an Express, Magnum, and Magnum Wingmaster models, the Magnum and the Wingmaster were very similar except the markings and the fancier stock, and the Express was the Wal-Mart version that I don't think took 3" magnum rounds. All of that has changed, I don't know much about the newer ones except none of them have an action that feels as tight and smooth as my Wingmaster or other Wingmasters and older Magnums that I've handled. I wouldn't trade mine for the world.
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Old June 26, 2013, 05:04 AM   #15
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I've seen several posts from people having rust isues on the Express models.
It seems these days that few people have heard of a wonderful invention called "an oily rag." (The type of oil really doesn't matter.)

Use one once in a while and you'll find that most rust issues go away.
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Old June 26, 2013, 05:58 AM   #16
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No. Each one has a different serial number, and Remington did not need the Gun Control Act of 1968 to start putting serial numbers on their guns.
All Expresses since day one are Magnums. Remington stopped making 2-3/4" chambered 12 gauges in the 80s. If you measure the chamber on a 2-3/4" marked target gun, odds are it will measure 3".
The Expresses are bead blasted and flash blued. Some of them have a tendency to surface rust rather easily. I believe the quick rinse does not get all the bluing salts out of the rough surface. Oil is not a solvent for bluing salts. Wash it good with soapy water and a tooth brush, then dry, and then oil, has stopped the problem on several I have dealt with.
A lot of cosmetic corners have been cut with the Expresses to get them on the shelves cheap. That is what customers want. It works. A good MIM part is fine; the problem is there is not good way to test them and if the manufacturing conditions varied the parts will not be up to snuff. With forgings the chances of bad parts are greatly lessened, but forgings are a lot more expensive to make. Some of them have had rough chambers, but that is easily remedied and I don't know anyone who contacted Remington with an issue that it wasn't addressed, but many would rather bleat about stuff on the internet than just deal with it and fix it.
A lot of people are all in a huff because you cannot spend an Express price and get a Wingmaster. By far most Expresses work just fine out of the box. If you want a Wingmaster buy one. If you want an Express, buy that. If the MIM extractor is causing you to lose sleep, change it out. They will smooth up greatly with use. A well used Express is as slick as any Wingmaster. Underneath the "matte" surface, it is the same grade steel. And the receivers are all still forged steel.

Last edited by Virginian-in-LA; June 26, 2013 at 05:59 PM.
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Old June 26, 2013, 10:51 AM   #17
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Remington stopped making 2-3/4" chambered 12 gauges in the 80s. If you measure the chamber on a 2-3/4" marked target gun, odds are it will measure 3".
This is dangerous as written... First off, gun makers do not mark barrels with erroneous info...

Secondly, I doubt Remington would have any gun marked so as to limit possible ammo sales...

If the barrel is marked 2 3/4 and a chamber cast reveals a 3 inch chamber i will eat a Twinkie and I hate those...

But i will assure you that if you "measure" with shells, you will find what looks like a 3 inch chamber...

Chambers on shotguns often fit shells too long for the chamber since they are measured and cut to fit the fired hull of stated length... The length as marked on the box... Shells can vary and shotgun makers can shape the area in front of the chamber how ever they want... I bet you could stuff a 4.5 inch shell in a 3 inch "overbored" gun but would you be safe???

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Old June 26, 2013, 11:17 AM   #18
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Quote:
If you measure the chamber on a 2-3/4" marked target gun, odds are it will measure 3".
Hogdogs is right that it is dangerous "as written". If it is true the all 870 Express models should be sold new with barrels chambered for 2-3/4 or 3" shells, the BARREL can be swapped for an older one that is not chambered for a 3".

Furthermore, it is not true when applied to all 2-3/4" marked target guns, if it is true if reference is limited to Remington 870 Express.

Remember, it is the barrel that is chambered and 870 barrels are interchangeable.
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Old June 26, 2013, 05:56 PM   #19
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How is it dangerous to write the truth? You guys must wear bike helmets inside your cars you are so nervous. Look at the serial number on an Express. Let me know if you find one that ends in a 'V', which is 2-3/4" 12 gauge. I made a slight edit to ease your minds.
I do not measure chambers with a shell. I have chamber gauges and micrometers. Check it yourself if you doubt me. And marking a barrel 2-3/4" when it has a 3" chamber is not dangerous or erroneous in the least; it doesn't say the chamber size, it says what shells can safely be used. The reverse could be unsafe, hence they do not stamp 3" on a 2-3/4" chamber. The only exception for shorter chambered barrels made since 1987 I can think of could be a 2-3/4" deer barrel, which I have no experience with since I haven't deer hunted in decades, but the receiver post-1987 is still a 3" receiver, so you can swap barrels. One should always go by the markings on the barrel unless they know how to accurately check things themselves. I have personally measured several Remington target barrels marked for 2-3/4" and the chamber was 3" plus. It's cheaper and safer to ream them all to 3".
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Old June 26, 2013, 06:54 PM   #20
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Newer Expresses are worse than the older ones.

Quote:
That said, I've been running an Express for over a decade without any issues. It's my cruiser shotgun, with a 20" rifle sight barrel, and I qualify and shoot it regularly.
I have no doubt that this is true as I too have and "older" Express that is my workhorse. However, the rust issues are not with our older ones, they are with the newer Expresses and last year, stopped recommending them and now recommend the Mossberg. They are not as good as they use to be. I could provide a list of problems with these "Newer" Expresses. ....

Another example, is take a new express and wipe you finger nail across the finish on the "laminated" wood stock. That is not a finish on the stock but an application of stain. One year of normal service and they need refinishing or finish altogether. Also, take a "newer" express off the rack and wipe an oily rag on the barrel. Now tell me what you see and think?? ....

Be Safe !!!
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Old June 26, 2013, 08:19 PM   #21
Virginian-in-LA
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If you have not looked at a "new" Express lately I recommend it. The latest ones I have seen are a bit better finished than some over the last few years.
As for the stocks, everyone raves about oil finish, rub some boiled linseed oil on it.
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Old June 26, 2013, 09:47 PM   #22
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Also, take a "newer" express off the rack and wipe an oily rag on the barrel. Now tell me what you see and think?? ....
The brown stuff that comes off is the grease they come in from the factory, not rust, if that's what you're implying.

I've had my 870 Express for about 6 months and it's digested about 500 rounds with no issues. Is it a pretty gun? No, but it works and that's all I expect for $300.
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Old June 27, 2013, 01:28 AM   #23
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The rusty stuff i seen on a 3.5 super mag express was after a thorough cleaning which included pulling all foreign material from said rough barrel with the bluing on it...

A week later, the poor devil was on the same rack as a cheap Mossberg 500 and a Savage .22 bolt action...

It turned a bright pitiful orange as rust formed in each pit on the barrel but the other 2 stayed black... The Remington was not a new gun when I got it but had not sat out in the rain neither...

Brent
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Old June 27, 2013, 01:55 PM   #24
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Living with rust !!!

Quote:
The brown stuff that comes off is the grease they come in from the factory, not rust, if that's what you're implying.
Why do you need grease on a barrel? The reason is as hogdogs has described. The barrel finish is blue with what I call, phonograph finish or tiny little grooves that where rust can start in the Valleys. You can wipe them down, from here to the end of time and you will still be lifting "rusty" grease. ....

Fellas, don't take my word for it, take a look for yourself. I have bought two of these for my Grandsons and I'm still fighting this problems with them as well as spent shells not ejecting. By the way, I recently got a new Wingmaster and there is no grease on the barrel, only a light film of oil.

Be Safe !!!
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Old June 27, 2013, 03:06 PM   #25
Bake
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I don't have an Express, but I've been wipeing my old Wingmaster down with "ED'S RED" forever, and anything and everything else, and no rust.

"bing" it, check it out, and try it, cann't hurt...
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