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Old June 22, 2013, 01:47 PM   #1
saands
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Archery question ...

I live in a place that allows the harvesting of deer in a suburban/rural area (the lots in the neighborhood are ~0.7 to 1.0 acres). It is an archery only proposition, but cross-bows are allowed. My question is this: If I am extremely picky about picking my shot, is there any combination of hardware (broadhead, mechanically expanding broadhead, etc) and shot placement that will give me a 95+% chance of dropping a deer within 20yds of where it is shot? I am a little concerned about having a deer with an arterial bleed running across the deck/driveway of a neighbor that might not be a hunter

In case it matters, the local deer appear to be smallish ... ~125-150 lbs would be my guess.

TIA,

Saands
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Old June 22, 2013, 02:00 PM   #2
BuckRub
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Not even a 300 Win mag could give you that guarantee. I shot a lot of deer with rifles, recurve, compound and crossbows And nothing is guaranteed. Last year I shot 3 deer with a crossbow and hit all three perfect about 20-25 yards away. All three ran about 30-40 yards away and looked around like they were trying to figure out what that noise was then feel over. All with thunderhead 100 grain broad heads. Most with any bows will run usually from 20 to 80 yards before expiring. But every once in awhile you'll drop one instantly with a bad shot (vertebra shot). I've killed maybe 50 deer with different bows but usually you have to shoot them and see what happens.
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Old June 22, 2013, 02:21 PM   #3
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Absolutely not. Like BackRub said - even a high-powered rifle seldom drops them where they stand.

A bullet kills by hydrostatic shock. An arrow has very littel kinetic energy. It kills by hemmorage. Every so often, you'll see an arrow-shot deer drop right away. Those shots found part of the central nervous system and paralized the animal. Even the best archers can't make that shot on purpose though.
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Old June 22, 2013, 03:29 PM   #4
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70+ deer with the bow and I only remember three dropping where they stood. All the rest probably averaged 50-60 yds before dropping from blood loss. Several went into the hundreds of yards. Some only went twenty or thirty.
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Old June 22, 2013, 04:13 PM   #5
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This might do the job:
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Old June 22, 2013, 06:18 PM   #6
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I agree with the rest most deer run. I have taken part of their hearts and lungs and had them run a good ways.

I was hunting in an area near Boulder Colorado that had a lot of anti hunters and private property. I stayed long way away from any private property but a few people out hunting got deer that ran and property owners would not let them retrieve them.
Then some of the property owners called news papers, DOW, PETA, etc, and tried to make a huge deal of it. It took one deer like 2 days to die and they just tried to use it as a anti hunting mascot and smear it all over the media.
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Old June 22, 2013, 06:28 PM   #7
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They will run alittle most of the time.

Last edited by BuckRub; June 22, 2013 at 07:20 PM.
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Old June 22, 2013, 07:06 PM   #8
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Happiness is a warm, Gut-Pile !!! ..... only to us

Quote:
I am a little concerned about having a deer with an arterial bleed running across the deck/driveway of a neighbor that might not be a hunter
It's a valid concern but it's going to happen sooner or later. In our area, there are incidents like this and it even makes the local news. On one occasion, a deer decided to drop dead on a bike path and scared a bunch of folks. ...

They call them city hunts but they are actually more of a conservation effort. Gardeners don't like us shooting deer until they start eating their beautiful flower garden. As stated, we can only do our best, in our own best ways. Go the extra mile, in the city than you would, in the woods.

Case in point;
Last year some hunters shot a deer in a very exposed area. They drug it about 50yds. into some trees and then proceeded to gut it. ..
They left a broad blood trail in the snow as well as the Gut-Pile. ..
We all know that with a little extras effort, they could have covered the trail and removed the Gut-Pile .......

Be Safe !!!
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Old June 22, 2013, 07:43 PM   #9
globemaster3
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I saw an arrow head that carried that kind of guarantee once. I saw it on video reportedly in Vietnam. Anybody else recall seeing that one?

Otherwise, having bow hunted since 1987, I agree with what everyone else is saying: there are no guarantees like that.
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Old June 22, 2013, 08:39 PM   #10
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I screwed up and hit one in the shoulder bone (Heard the arrow coming and started to drop back). It took a piece of bone out about 1 1/2" round, went through the heart and was just coming out the other side of the heart. It ran at least 50 yards on 3 legs. I always dropped them on the spot when hit in the flat bone of the shoulder with a rifle.
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Old June 22, 2013, 09:20 PM   #11
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Just take all your neighbors cakes or pies occasionally and maybe they won't be mad. I wouldn't worry about it if it happens it happens. Come to think of it the more people you got helping you might be better. Ask all the neighbors to help track your deer! Lol
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Old June 22, 2013, 10:57 PM   #12
saands
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Thanks for all the replies ... I figured that there were not likely to be any guarantees, but I had to ask

I'm brand new to the neighborhood, so I think that I will get to know the neighbors before I do any hunting. If even one of my next door neighbors has it in for the quadrupeds, then I can always bias my shot so that the 100 yds will either be on my land or theirs ... and I'll just take my chances on the rare one that will make it farther.

Thanks again,

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Old June 23, 2013, 04:40 AM   #13
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You live dangerously. Someone in your neighborhood is probalby feeding the deer. Anytime something like deer in your yard happens, someone starts feeding them like feral cats...then some of lady even starts to recognize some of them and maybe even names them. If that old gal even gets wind of you shooting one of them, you might as well move to Siberia...you are evil for the rest of time.
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Old June 23, 2013, 06:01 AM   #14
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No way to guarrentee a deer is going to drop within 20 yards.

Just take a good shot and the rest is up to the deer.
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Old June 23, 2013, 11:29 AM   #15
buck460XVR
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In 47 years of bow hunting, the only deer that ever dropped in their tracks when shot, were those I accidentally hit in the spine. While a perfect heart/lung shot will generally put an undisturbed deer down within sight, that still is 30-40 yards, which in a sub-division where lots are .7-1 acre, means the neighbors yard. If this happens, you will need the neighbors permission to retrieve the animal. From my experience, it is best to get this permission BEFORE you even start to hunt. Hunting a one acre parcel without permission from surrounding land owners, hoping to drop an animal within that one acre using standard archery equipment, is a foolish proposition and a invitation to a neighborhood feud that will last forever.
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Old June 23, 2013, 11:50 AM   #16
saands
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Quote:
From my experience, it is best to get this permission BEFORE you even start to hunt.
I think that there is a lot of wisdom here and it will define my approach to this. I'd love it to be an opportunity, but I don't need years of ill-will if it goes less than perfectly.

I have never hunted with archery equipment, only rifles and I while it is true that no rifle will guarantee a DRT result on an average shot, if a person is willing to be patient and wait for (and only take) a perfect 30yd head shot on a deer, I believe that it would be possible to make good on a DRT bet with a rifle. That being said, you guys have educated me on the reality that this doesn't apply to archery hunting. I am very glad that I asked

Thanks again,

Saands
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Old June 23, 2013, 12:36 PM   #17
NoSecondBest
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Quote:
I have never hunted with archery equipment, only rifles and I while it is true that no rifle will guarantee a DRT result on an average shot, if a person is willing to be patient and wait for (and only take) a perfect 30yd head shot on a deer, I believe that it would be possible to make good on a DRT bet with a rifle. That being said, you guys have educated me on the reality that this doesn't apply to archery hunting. I am very glad that I asked
FYI...I have personally seen three deer with jaws shot off and two with large holes in their snouts go by me during gun season in NY and PA. I'm still waiting to find out what a "perfect head shot" is. It's a shot I don't try for and I'm a really good shot, both off hand and off rest.
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Old June 23, 2013, 03:20 PM   #18
Pahoo
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The starting points !!

Quote:
From my experience, it is best to get this permission BEFORE you even start to hunt.
Would agree that this is always a good policy but for these types of hunts/ conservation effort, not easy or realistic. Practically all are conducted in City/County areas, housing additions, city and county parks that border on houses. Even some golf courses. Most of these areas are not directly controlled by private homes. All are heavily publicized through the media. Some areas even conduct public meeting where folks can express their concerns. So far, they have all been approved in our area. Sure, you get Bunny-Huggers that will always object and their feelings are respected. Surprisingly, you also get some folks that question why their areas were not included. ...

A few years back, I was one of many volunteers that helped facilitate such a conservation efforts. Really wasn't much fun or hunt but it did get the numbers down. ....

Forgot to mention that all hunters had to apply for a special permit and required to take a Hunter Safety course, of sorts. ....

Respect and;
Be Safe !!!
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Last edited by Pahoo; June 23, 2013 at 03:41 PM.
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Old June 23, 2013, 07:33 PM   #19
cerberus65
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Head shot with a suppressed rifle...
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Old June 23, 2013, 07:55 PM   #20
Doyle
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Quote:
Head shot with a suppressed rifle...
See NoSecondBest's post about why deliberate head shots are a BAD idea on deer. WAY too many deer get wounded by idiots who THINK they are good enough for a consistent head shot.
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Old June 23, 2013, 10:38 PM   #21
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I guess if I shot one and it ran across my neighbors or further I'd get a lot of neighbors and tell them that I see blood and get everyone to help track. Then tell them poachers must be doing this and after locating deer tell them to help put it in my truck and the game warden wants me to bring it to him for investigation. And take it straight to the processing plant!
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Old June 24, 2013, 10:14 AM   #22
buck460XVR
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pahoo:

Would agree that this is always a good policy but for these types of hunts/ conservation effort, not easy or realistic. Practically all are conducted in City/County areas, housing additions, city and county parks that border on houses. Even some golf courses. Most of these areas are not directly controlled by private homes.

Not always easy, but always realistic to try. I don't know where the OP lives so I don't know his local/state regs on trespassing. But here, you need permission to step foot on any private property you don't own......unless you are a meter reader or utility worker. Even then, by law they are supposed to stay within the easements or get permission. If one can't get access to where a deer will probably drop, they need to find a different place to hunt. Pretty simple. Shooting a deer without a legal way to retrieve that animal is also illegal here. City and County parks and other municipal areas are not private property. If hunting there is legal, with or without a specific permit, access is usually a given. Same goes for a municipal Golf Course. But if it is private, even if open to the public for golfing, you need to have permission to be on that property for other reasons. In my experience, I have found that folks generally take deer/deer hunting and their rights to own private property very dear and very personal. Around here, I have seen more family/friend/neighbor relationships ruined over deer/deer hunting and trespassing during deer hunting than by woman and money. My understanding is, the OP says he would be hunting in area surrounded by private property. Realistically then, he needs permission to enter the neighbors yard ethically and odds are....legally. Gettin' permission is still more realistic than dropping a deer within 20 yards with any archery equipment.

Quote:
Originally posted by Doyle:

See NoSecondBest's post about why deliberate head shots are a BAD idea on deer. WAY too many deer get wounded by idiots who THINK they are good enough for a consistent head shot
+1
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Old June 24, 2013, 09:55 PM   #23
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I have shot many deer with a rifle that were standing on the edge of deep ravines. You better believe I did not want that deer taking two steps. If you hit a deer broadside with a rifle through the flat shoulder bone it will drop. Period. I have had people try to tell me otherwise. I think not. I have hit running deer at that spot and the deer goes down like a bag of cement falling off a moving truck. I have also shot a couple between the eyes. If the deer is facing you, how do you "Shoot the jaw off" the deer without hitting it in the neck or shooting over it's head? That must be a pretty anemic round you have if you shoot the jaw off and it bounces off the neck. I strongly suspect (After hearing 7 fast shots out of a '94 Winchesters) that if the jaw stories are true, the hunters probably were not aiming at the head to begin with. I have seen or killed deer with: an arrow through the neck(And just about any part of the anatomy you can imagine) front legs shot off, back legs shot off, gutshot, assshot, bullet hole through the ear, nose shot off, bullet hole through the main beam, and healed over bullets and buckshot in every cut of meat you can imagine. I can only think that whoever did that shooting was just aiming in the general direction of the deer. You aim where you want to and let people that are better shots aim where we want to. Oh, this should get the self righteous experts wound up, I also frequently hunt with center fire .22's.
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Old June 24, 2013, 10:42 PM   #24
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Most people's advice here is spot on unfortunately there are people on here that don't know what they're talking about (gunplummer). But hunting where you're talking about IF you want to keep peace probably wouldn't be a wise decision.
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Old June 25, 2013, 08:39 AM   #25
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I've posted my comments based on my experience. I try to offer the best advice I can to help you answer your question. However, there is a lot of advice put on the internet by people who don't have good advice to offer. They either make stuff up, guess and don't really know, or just like to jump in on any conversation and take the opposite stand even if it defies any logic what so ever. Read it all, try to sort out the BS from the real stuff, and make the best decision you can. Some of the comments posted are very helpful (most are in this post) but some are really off the wall. You figure out which is which. Best of luck.
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