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Old June 21, 2013, 02:12 PM   #1
dlburns
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AR 15 with fixed carry handle

I am new to the AR stuff and just purchased a S&W MP15 that has a fixed carry handle. My question is, can I mount a red dot scope ( I want the Aimpoint PRO) on top of this handle and still get co=witness with my front sight?
If not, how do I zero it in?
Thanks
Dave
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Old June 21, 2013, 02:25 PM   #2
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Sure, you can mount it on top of the handle, that's what the hole is for.
It'll be a little high but it'll work and it will not co-witness with your front sight.

The Aimpoint will have windage and elevation adjustments.

Old school look. Nice.
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Old June 21, 2013, 02:43 PM   #3
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Thats not a S&W M&P-15.... that's an AR someone through together with parts laying around. Hell you can even see the two differences in the finish on the upper and lower. Not to mention the fact S&W never offered a fixed carry handle to my knowledge let alone one with triangle hand guards.

I hope you knew what you were buying and weren't taken advantage of.
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Old June 21, 2013, 03:47 PM   #4
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People into retro ARs might be interested in buying that upper. You might be able sell it and break even buying a modern flat top upper.
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Old June 21, 2013, 03:50 PM   #5
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Unless that is the look you want I'd sell the upper and replace it with a flat top version. Optics can be mounted on the carry handle, but they are so high they are difficult to use. I wouldn't do it.
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Old June 21, 2013, 07:44 PM   #6
dlburns
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AR 15 / A2

Dang it, that is not what I wanted to hear...If I sell the upper do I have to go through all the crap with an FFL again?
Anyone know if that A2 butt stock is Mil Spec or Commercial.
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Old June 21, 2013, 07:47 PM   #7
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Nope the lower receiver is the only part that you need to worry about as far as FFL's go!
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Old June 21, 2013, 07:50 PM   #8
dlburns
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Newbie - like I said

HKfan9
Think you were a little harsh don't you? I asked a simple question not expecting a rant from a 'purist'
I appreciate the answers from the other folks and yes the rifle was assembled by the guy I bought it from to look like an M16 ( he's an ex jarhead )
I've already replaced the hand guards with rails and want to do the stock next with an adjustable.
Dave
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Old June 21, 2013, 08:26 PM   #9
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That looks like a someone pieced together one of the Isreali upper parts kits that have hit the market recently with a S&W lower.

I would put on an old A1 stock on it instead of the A2, swap out the muzzle the device for the correct one and have retro AR!
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Old June 21, 2013, 08:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
HKfan9
Think you were a little harsh don't you? I asked a simple question not expecting a rant from a 'purist'
I appreciate the answers from the other folks and yes the rifle was assembled by the guy I bought it from to look like an M16 ( he's an ex jarhead )
I've already replaced the hand guards with rails and want to do the stock next with an adjustable.
Dave
The problem with the internet is things are taken out of context I will give you that.

I am not a purist in the slightest, I own a 9mm 1911 which is most purist circles is a mortal sin.

I was concerned not over the gun, but if you were fed a bunch of lies when buying it.

When you called it a S&W M&P-15 it seemed as though you we referring to one of the rack rifles which would retail much more than a parts kit gun would cost.

I love throw back rifles, and I love parts built rifles, I do it myself, what I hate is a "noob" getting taken advantage of by a guy who slaps together some cheap parts and then since the roll mark says SW sells it for more than it is worth.

I was not raging on the gun, I was just hoping that you KNEW what you purchased when you did, and not gotten fed a bunch of BS.

If you want to cowitness with irons I would suggest a flat top upper like others have, however, I would, if possible in your situation.... hang onto the fixed carry handle upper... and do another retro build with it down the road and enjoy both.

Your butt-stock is on a rifle extension tube, not a carbine extension so you should not have to worry about comm or mil spec. However that limits what stocks you can use.
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Old June 21, 2013, 11:08 PM   #11
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A "z" style step down mount will work with your carry handle and possibly co-witness with your irons as well.
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Old June 22, 2013, 01:11 AM   #12
Quentin2
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Quote:
HKfan9
Think you were a little harsh don't you? I asked a simple question not expecting a rant from a 'purist'
I appreciate the answers from the other folks and yes the rifle was assembled by the guy I bought it from to look like an M16 ( he's an ex jarhead )
I've already replaced the hand guards with rails and want to do the stock next with an adjustable.
Dave
Dave, I don't think HKfan9 was harsh or on a rant, he gave you good information in both posts.

If you're going to modernize this AR and don't really want a retro version then it makes sense to sell the upper as pictured and buy a flat top upper. As said above, no FFL required.

Changing out the A2 stock/rifle receiver extension for the carbine RE/stock isn't very hard. Since you brought it up, I'd go with a milspec carbine RE/stock instead of comspec but it's up to you.
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Old June 22, 2013, 01:15 AM   #13
dlburns
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Thank you

HKfan9, I appreciate your response and advice. I know things get taken out of context at times on these forums.
I bought the rifle from a friend who through in a bunch of extras (mags and such) so I don't think I paid too much.
I do kick myself though as my FFL guy had 6 Colt AR's in the boxes in his shop when I picked up my 22-250 last year. He wanted $1200.00 and I told him I would think about it
I really don't know the first thing about building an AR so keeping the upper for another build might be out of my league.
I really wanted to put a red dot scope on it but it sounds like it wouldn't be ideal for this rifle.

mrry13 - can you tell me more about the step down mount?
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Old June 22, 2013, 01:18 AM   #14
dlburns
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Flat top upper

Quentin, I agree and hope I conveyed that it my last post.
How difficult would it be for a novice like me to change those uppers out? Could you give me a ballpark price on what a flat top upper would run me?
Dave
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Old June 22, 2013, 02:01 AM   #15
Metal god
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Flat top upper $100

Tools $50

Knowledge of how to do it "PRICELESS"

Last edited by Metal god; June 22, 2013 at 03:12 PM.
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Old June 22, 2013, 10:47 AM   #16
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Well as Metal said, if you buy a flat top receiver then pull your barrel from your A1 receiver and swap receivers it can be cheap plus you'd learn a lot. Also there are chances for grief (especially since your barrel likely doesn't have M4 feed ramps and new receivers often do). I'd buy a new barreled upper which would be $500-650, including new bolt/carrier and charging handle.

The new upper is ready to go and should pin right on your lower and work. (Well, you'll need a rear sight.) If you can find someone who wants to build an old AR (I have that on the back burner myself) you could recover some of the cost, how much - that would depend on the quality/condition of your upper. Also you may like the idea of having both uppers since it just takes seconds to swap and have "two" ARs!

PSA is a good place to look for uppers but these days things go out of stock quick. Their quality is high and prices are low. Before buying anything you should spend hours/days comparing barrels/bolts (twist rate, weight, profile, length, gas length, materials, etc.) so you get what's right for your uses.

Anyway, no rush, have fun with what you've got, learn a lot, shoot a lot and wait for supply to go up and prices to go down.
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Old June 22, 2013, 11:11 AM   #17
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I just noticed you're in CA! Your rifle has a flash hider, pistol grip, 30rd mag, bayonet lug and other "evil" features so you need to make absolutely sure it's legal in your state. Since it's a parts gun built on a recent S&W lower receiver, I fear it is not legal so find out before taking it to the range!

The upper itself could be pre-ban but the lower surely is not so it really doesn't matter how old the upper is since "age" is determined by the serial # on the lower receiver. All the other parts could be pre-ban, but still you go by the lower receiver.

I don't know how replacing the upper fits into CA law either but anyway it's important to find out quick. A CA compliant upper would solve many problems but you'd still have to think about the magazine, pistol grip and mag release vs. a bullet button.

Hopefully someone here more familiar with California law can add insight!
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Old June 22, 2013, 11:29 AM   #18
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Quote:
I just noticed you're in CA! Your rifle has a flash hider, pistol grip, 30rd mag, bayonet lug and other "evil" features so you need to make absolutely sure it's legal in your state. Since it's a parts gun built on a recent S&W lower receiver, I fear it is not legal so find out before taking it to the range!

The upper itself could be pre-ban but the lower surely is not so it really doesn't matter how old the upper is since "age" is determined by the serial # on the lower receiver. All the other parts could be pre-ban, but still you go by the lower receiver.
You know - I was thinking the same thing. I'm no expert on California's immoral and unconstitutional laws, but I get the feeling that someone may have taken a "pre-ban" rifle (maybe Bushmaster or Olympic), stripped it down to the lower (assuming a "pre-ban" lower is more valuable in California) to use that for some other project, and then just slapped all the leftover parts on a new, less-valuable S&W lower they had sitting around to sell off to an unsuspecting buyer.

Then again, it may be much more innocent. As someone mentioned, maybe it was just a parts kit on a new lower. It still doesn't look legal for California, from what I understand, since all S&W lowers are "post-ban."


.

I'd be curious as to what the markings on the barrel say.

Last edited by Fishbed77; June 22, 2013 at 11:35 AM.
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Old June 22, 2013, 12:08 PM   #19
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Yeah Fish, Let's assume his buddy didn't intentionally break the law since building an AR in a ban state is complicated. But you're right that a preban lower would be worth A LOT in CA, while a postban lower is only $100 or so. This rifle would be legal in AZ but not legal once you cross the Colorado River...

Anyway, before taking it out to shoot Dave, I'd find out! You don't want the rangemaster or a police officer to see it until you're sure. As they say, ignorace of the law is no excuse.
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Old June 22, 2013, 01:57 PM   #20
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Dave, this forum should be a wealth of information regarding CA law.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/index.php

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...00#post2304200


BTW, earlier I referred to your upper as A1 but should have said A2 since it has the ranging feature on the rear sight.
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Old June 22, 2013, 03:09 PM   #21
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As long as it has a bullet button on it he can have all the evil features he wants . Minus 30rd mag . My guess is that it's a blocked 10/30 mag . I bet you guys are right though , someone most likely changed out the lower to comply with CA law .
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Old June 22, 2013, 05:38 PM   #22
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This'll make it clear as mud!

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf
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Old June 22, 2013, 06:14 PM   #23
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^ wow.
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Old June 22, 2013, 06:59 PM   #24
Metal god
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this firearm follows the cart straight down then to the right through the bullet button provision and up to the mag that hold 10 rounds or less .

This is legal in CA , I built this one . It's all about the bullet button and how that makes the firearm a fixed mag rather then a detachable mag .


This is legal as well . I bought this one complete from my LGS


Both these rifles are equiped with a bullet button

But I do love the , This makes it clear as mud statement
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Old June 22, 2013, 07:23 PM   #25
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Thanks a million guys

I really appreciate all of the advice and suggestions. The 30 round mag came with it. I ordered some Magpul 10 rounders to comply with the law. It DOES have the bullet button.
Metal God - Your first photo is 'exactly' how I want mine to look.
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