The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 19, 2013, 10:15 PM   #26
Spats McGee
Staff
 
Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyJim
I don't know about Arkansas's implied consent law but, in my state, if you don't consent to the test, your license is automatically suspended and the officer may still cite/arrest you for DUI based on his or her observations.
That's very similar to ours. There are several code sections that come into play, such as the ones on suspending the DL (which is automatic here, too), but here's the one to which I was referring:
Quote:
(a) Any person who operates a motor vehicle or is in actual physical control of a motor vehicle in this state is deemed to have given consent, subject to the provisions of § 5-65-203, to one (1) or more chemical tests of his or her blood, breath, or urine for the purpose of determining the alcohol or controlled substance content of his or her breath or blood if:

(1) The person is arrested for any offense arising out of an act alleged to have been committed while the person was driving while intoxicated or driving while there was an alcohol concentration of eight hundredths (0.08) or more in the person's breath or blood;

(2) The person is involved in an accident while operating or in actual physical control of a motor vehicle; or

(3) At the time the person is arrested for driving while intoxicated, the law enforcement officer has reasonable cause to believe that the person, while operating or in actual physical control of a motor vehicle, is intoxicated or has an alcohol concentration of eight hundredths (0.08) or more in the person's breath or blood.

(b) Any person who is dead, unconscious, or otherwise in a condition rendering him or her incapable of refusal is deemed not to have withdrawn the consent provided by subsection (a) of this section, and one (1) or more chemical tests may be administered subject to the provisions of § 5-65-203.
A.C.A. § 5-65-202

Additionally, under Arkansas law, the court or the jury may take the defendant's refusal to submit to chemical testing as evidence of guilt.
__________________
A gunfight is not the time to learn new skills.

If you ever have a real need for more than a couple of magazines, your problem is not a shortage of magazines. It's a shortage of people on your side of the argument. -- Art Eatman
Spats McGee is offline  
Old June 20, 2013, 01:52 AM   #27
Mezzanine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 9, 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 103
Well, too many people watch court television shows i can see... The police used their discretion and acted accordingly and within the laws. And obviously not taking the O.P. straight to the hospital had no ill effects. Theres not a lot they do for you for a concussion other than charge you to tell you, you have a concussion. Also think about how many times a year a LEO hears "i hit my head officer, honestly" when they show up at an accident and end up giving a DWI...
Mezzanine is offline  
Old June 20, 2013, 02:33 AM   #28
Dreaming100Straight
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 3, 2013
Posts: 597
Is Arrest Necessary

Is SCOTUS about to decide something on when rights must be given; whether a full arrest or significant interference with freedom suffices?

Last edited by Dreaming100Straight; June 20, 2013 at 04:01 AM.
Dreaming100Straight is offline  
Old June 20, 2013, 06:55 AM   #29
PawPaw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 2010
Location: Central Louisiana
Posts: 3,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreaming100Straight
Is SCOTUS about to decide something on when rights must be given; whether a full arrest or significant interference with freedom suffices?
They released it earlier this week. The case is Salinas v Texas and deals with Miranda Warnings.
__________________
Dennis Dezendorf

http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com
PawPaw is offline  
Old June 20, 2013, 08:08 AM   #30
1hogfan83
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 12, 2011
Location: Fayetteville AR
Posts: 373
When the officer took me in, I blew a 0.0 as I stated earlier. The cop was pretty mad, he kept saying the machine was broke. I failed the field test horribly like I knew I would. He kept saying something about an officer coming in doing a more specialized sobriety test. In the end he gave me a ticket for reckless driving and a lecture about how he just knew I wasn't telling the truth. Another thing that upset me, he had his gf/wife with him the whole time. Our wonder police system.
__________________
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe—and shudder. James 2:19
"I do not fear the man that practices ten thousand kicks one time, I fear the man that practices one kick ten thousand times." Bruce Lee
1hogfan83 is offline  
Old June 20, 2013, 08:19 AM   #31
csmsss
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Orange, TX
Posts: 2,986
Quote:
When the officer took me in, I blew a 0.0 as I stated earlier. The cop was pretty mad, he kept saying the machine was broke. I failed the field test horribly like I knew I would. He kept saying something about an officer coming in doing a more specialized sobriety test. In the end he gave me a ticket for reckless driving and a lecture about how he just knew I wasn't telling the truth.
What you're describing is NOT an arrest. You may have reason to be aggrieved that he did not request an ambulance for your injury, but nothing about what you've described screams of a 4A or 5A violation to me. Btw...there are lots of cops love to lecture and berate and generally make the citizens before them feel like dirt - but this isn't a violation of your rights.

Quote:
Another thing that upset me, he had his gf/wife with him the whole time. Our wonder police system.
If he was off duty at the time he arrived at the scene, isn't that to be expected? What was he supposed to do with her?
csmsss is offline  
Old June 20, 2013, 08:39 AM   #32
grizz223
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2013
Location: Fl
Posts: 194
1hogfan83
I don't Monday morning quarterback my brothers in blue because I don't know the totality of the incident but our departmental procedure calls for us to render medical assistance before we arrest. If you were treated badly and if what you posted is true than I feel that you were. You can file an internal investigation. I’m sorry that you treated badly but you have to understand that we as Law enforcement officer have by our natures and experience a distrusting nature, it comes with the job. We tend to forget we serve the people not the other way around. I see this a lot with younger Deputies in my department. I try to mentor them but most have no time to listen to an old salt like myself they are busy saving the world. Anyway not all of us are like the one you dealt with.
__________________
NRA Life member. Deputy Sheriff.
grizz223 is offline  
Old June 20, 2013, 08:53 AM   #33
1hogfan83
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 12, 2011
Location: Fayetteville AR
Posts: 373
He was in blues and had a police cruiser. The other cop with him was very nice, unfortunately he didn't get there before "my friend." I've met several very nice police officers, I would judge each one individually. And as for being arrested, if im in cuffs in his cruiser, going down the road, im arrested.
__________________
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe—and shudder. James 2:19
"I do not fear the man that practices ten thousand kicks one time, I fear the man that practices one kick ten thousand times." Bruce Lee
1hogfan83 is offline  
Old June 20, 2013, 09:03 AM   #34
grizz223
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2013
Location: Fl
Posts: 194
No you are detained pending investigation which could lead to your arrest. You are not considered to be under arrest until we tell you are under arrest. It goes something like this sir at this time I am charging you with (Insert charge here).I will then read you your Miranda rights per our policy. As noted earlier Miranda’s do not have to be read right away but it is our policy. not trying to pick a fight with but unless he stated you are under arrest and told what you being charged with you were not under arrest.
__________________
NRA Life member. Deputy Sheriff.

Last edited by grizz223; June 20, 2013 at 10:11 AM.
grizz223 is offline  
Old June 20, 2013, 09:19 AM   #35
csmsss
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Orange, TX
Posts: 2,986
Quote:
The other cop with him was very nice, unfortunately he didn't get there before "my friend." I've met several very nice police officers, I would judge each one individually.
It isn't only detectives in dimly lit interrogation rooms that use the good cop/bad cop gambit.
csmsss is offline  
Old June 20, 2013, 10:00 AM   #36
1hogfan83
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 12, 2011
Location: Fayetteville AR
Posts: 373
Oh well, I got one on him! He sniffed all the bottles in my my truck, including a spit bottle that was about a month old. It had been opened in quite some time either. Lol. I have a bad habbit of not throwing my bottles away, that'll show him!
__________________
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe—and shudder. James 2:19
"I do not fear the man that practices ten thousand kicks one time, I fear the man that practices one kick ten thousand times." Bruce Lee
1hogfan83 is offline  
Old June 21, 2013, 10:07 PM   #37
SgtLumpy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2013
Posts: 779
Did YOU go to the hospital for your head after you were released?


Sgt Lumpy
SgtLumpy is offline  
Old June 21, 2013, 10:33 PM   #38
SgtLumpy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2013
Posts: 779
Was he arrested? Yes.

In Arkansas at least, a citation (criminal, traffic or civil) is (at least was) an arrest on (usually) signature bond. ie a ticket for speeding means you're being arrested but you're not taken into custody, you're being released on your signature, a promise to appear before the magistrate at a later date.

There is nothing (again was? nothing I doubt it's changed) to preclude an officer from taking you into physical custody for speeding or any other offense. Obviously that wouldn't be practical or politically popular. So typically you're only taken into custody for more "serious" offenses.

The line at which "serious" takes over from "less serious" varies between departments, typically based on the political climate. Example, in some JDs, small amounts of marijuana might result in a citation. In others, physical arrest. Arkansas, for example, went back and forth in the 90s about driving on suspended licenses. At one point it was "cite and call a licensed driver". Then switched to "physical arrest and impound the car, even if there's a licensed driver available". It went back and forth depending on the arguments about "making the voters happy/angry" and "not having enough space in the county graybar".

In this scenario described, it certainly would have been prudent for the officer to have the subject evaluated by paramedics. The girlfriend ride-along is a non-issue. The description of the officer being "mad" that the subject didn't turn up DWI is a clear sign of young officer "gung-ho-itis". Once you do a few hundred DWIs you become less emotional about the thing. I personally never found anything useful or positive or gratifying about giving someone a lecture, particularly a lecture about "lying to me". Young cops have to learn that most people they contact ARE lying to them. It's part of the job. They probably also have to learn that they're not your father. A lecture from an officer, who's job it is to arrest you, is not positive reinforcement. I can't imagine it doing much of anything except turning the person against that and every other LEO.

OP, glad you got away with just a cite. Hope you're ok. Really glad you didn't injure or kill someone. Sorry if the officer was a little too wet behind the Sam Brown.


Sgt Lumpy
SgtLumpy is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09769 seconds with 7 queries