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Old June 18, 2013, 07:31 PM   #1
baddarryl
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Rifle for Appleseed?

I know most use the almighty 10/22 but with the current price stupidity what other viable options are there for appleseed? I was looking at the Marlin 795 but it apparently takes 2 hands to change the mags which is a handicap or so I am told. Other good ones for it?
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Old June 18, 2013, 08:29 PM   #2
Mike38
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I’m no fan of the Marlin model 60, even though I own one. But the “tuber’s” as they call them in Appleseed do have an advantage, they are not required the magazine change. The “tuber’s” get to load all 10 rounds at once. Might be an advantage?

Myself, I used a scoped 10/22. Made Rifleman, so now I’m going to try without the scope.
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Old June 18, 2013, 09:57 PM   #3
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Here is my Marlin 795 with Tech Sights and a Boyds stock; I shot Rifleman with it at an Appleseed last year. My brother did the same with his 795, Tech Sights and a standard stock. I don't find the magazine changes to be a problem and for whatever reason I'm not a huge fan of the 10/22.

The sling is from the Appleseed web store if I recall correctly. A cotton sling is easier to work with than a nylon sling because you can get it tighter without discomfort. You'll want a sling like this if you don't have one, it helps. The Tech Sights are a huge plus, too. The stock is a nice upgrade but not necessary.

Something like a S&W M&P 15-22 would do well, too, but that won't solve the price problem. You can get 10 round mags for it which makes prone shooting easier. I'm going to try mine next time I go, I think.



Apologies for the picture size, I can't change it easily from my phone.
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Old June 19, 2013, 09:34 AM   #4
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Very nice. Does anybody shoot this appleseed event with a centerfire?

My son intends to take this class at some point in the future and wants to shoot his 308. I'm thinking he might rather use a 10-22.

How many rounds of ammunition will he need?
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Old June 19, 2013, 05:41 PM   #5
baddarryl
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Can one use a bolt action there? I have an incredibly accurate Marlin 981T tube fed rifle.
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Old June 19, 2013, 06:18 PM   #6
shanzlik
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I have shot it with a Sig 556 (the first time I went) and just missed a Rifleman score. A fair number of people shoot centerfire, the main drawbacks are ammo cost and if you're not used to the recoil it can potentially make it harder to diagnose any technique problems you have. I enjoyed shooting mine and will likely shoot a centerfire again at a future Appleseed at some point. The only drawback for me is ammo price and availability of 5.56 right now.

You will need anywhere from 200-500 rounds depending upon the pace of your particular event and whether you take some courses of fire off or not. I think I shot in the 350-450 range the two times I went.

There have been two or three 308 WIN rifles at each of the two events I went to, but keep most people shooting centerfire seem to have AR or AK variants. You could take both a rimfire and centerfire and switch at some point, start with the rimfire and switch once you have the instruction and technique down.

You can use a bolt action, just make sure it has a removable mag or you will have trouble getting loaded within the time limits. It's also a bit harder to maintain your natural point of aim while working the bolt, but I have seen it done well and would like to try it at some point.
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Last edited by shanzlik; June 19, 2013 at 06:23 PM.
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Old June 19, 2013, 06:53 PM   #7
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Might look at a savage 64, I have read a lot of good things about them. Mossberg makes the plinkster and Remington makes the 597. Tech sights makes peep sights for the Mossberg and the Remington, not sure about the savage. They are probably more options out there.
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Old June 19, 2013, 07:11 PM   #8
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I just attended my first Appleseed last weekend. I only had time to attend the first day. That's okay, they cover most (maybe all) of the instruction the first day anyway. I believe the second day is mostly for practice and AQTs (and more history). I did not score "rifleman" in my one attempt. Maybe I could have if I'd gone back the second day. Either way, some good things came from the experience. That brings me to the point that people may attend for various reasons, including...

1. learning some history
2. improving shooting
3. just having a fun outing at the range with like-minded people.
4. earning a "rifleman" score

...or any combination of the above.

If #4 is important to you, then the equipment you choose will be a serious consideration. If #4 isn't that important, you can still do #1-3 with just about any rifle--rimfire or centerfire, semi-auto or bolt, tube or detachable magazine, scoped or iron sights. You may not score well on the time tests, but depending on your purpose for being there, you may not care.

When I went, a couple people were shooting centerfire rifles. One was a .223 and the other one sounded bigger (whatever it was). Most others had 10/22 decked out various ways. One of the better shooters was using a tricked out Remington 597, I believe.

I think the 795 would be fine. You don't have to change magazines all that often or all that fast. Anything with a detachable 10-round magazine should keep you eligible for a rifleman score.

I know the website recommends Tech-Sights (which is what I used) but 90% of the people had scopes. I think learning with open sights is probably a good idea, but I've gone out shooting since and definitely do better with a scope, so, again, if #4 is important to you, you may very well have a better chance with a scope.

As for the web slings, those are an integral part of the instruction. I think the Tech-Sights website also sells them. I got a nylon one and a cloth one, and I like the cloth one better. Also, 1-1/4" width seems to work better than 1".

Last edited by idek; June 19, 2013 at 07:17 PM.
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Old June 21, 2013, 11:40 AM   #9
Tennessee Jed
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My son and I took each took a Marlin 795 to our first Appleseed and they worked great. I didn't notice any time lag due to mag changes. Very accurate rifle. I mounted some air-rifle scopes (Swift 4 - 12 power variables) on each. We only could stay the first day, but I shot Rifleman on my first test and my son came very close.

Nothing wrong with the 795's.
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Old June 22, 2013, 06:09 PM   #10
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If you go tube feed get a spee-D-loader. It holds 120 rds and makes loading a tuber pretty fast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3M9y...e_gdata_player

http://www.google.com/search?client=...JcViGP1LBNM%3A
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Old June 29, 2013, 11:10 AM   #11
baddarryl
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Marlin 981T

I may not need a new rifle for this. As I stated before I have a bolt action Marlin 981T that is tube fed. Will hold I think 15 rounds of LR and I have ways of loading it all at once I think. It is out of the box far more accurate than my buddies 10/22 so I could just use it, but am wondering if the bolt will be a handicap? That is the reason I am considering semi auto. I can cycle the bolt pretty smoothly, but obviously in no way can keep up with semi. What is the pace of rounds at Appleseed? I guess that is the real question. I even have a Rifle Basix trigger kit to drop in it already.

Last edited by baddarryl; June 30, 2013 at 05:00 PM.
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Old July 1, 2013, 01:21 PM   #12
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I was at a LGS and saw a Thompson .22 in the used gun rack. What a nice rifle! They were just a little too nice which drove the price up. There is also a issue with the extractor chipping the edge of the chamber in some if it did not have appropriate clearance that was not corrected. If those things are addressed, these are keeper rifles if you can find one. Just one to consider.

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Old July 1, 2013, 05:31 PM   #13
baddarryl
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Amen. One of my friends gave his brother one of those Thompson's at Christmas. That thing was sick even though I didn't get to shoot it.
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Old July 1, 2013, 05:44 PM   #14
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FYI, I almost forgot. I tried the Appleseed course with the Thompson. It shot a respectable 231.

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Old July 2, 2013, 06:57 AM   #15
45_auto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddarryl
What is the pace of rounds at Appleseed?
I've been an Appleseed instructor for a while, and my observation has been that bolt actions make the Appleseed a little more difficult for new shooters, but not that big of a deal if you're a practiced shooter. The second and third stages are what hurts the new bolt gunners. I shoot in the 230's with my 10/22 semi or CZ452 bolt gun, doesn't make any difference which one I'm shooting. I shoot in the low 220's with my S&W M&P 15-22, the sling seems to flex the barrel in the plastic receiver and it won't group as consistently as the other 2.

First stage is 10 shots standing in 2 minutes. Easy with a bolt gun.

Second stage is 55 seconds. Start standing, drop to sitting or kneeling. Shoot 2 rounds, mandatory reload, then shoot 8 rounds. Bolt guns usually have a problem with this stage. Getting into position and reloading eats up at least 5 seconds, so you have to average a shot every 4 seconds or so.

Third stage is 65 seconds. Start standing, drop to prone. Shoot 2 shots, mandatory reload, then 8 shots. Bolt guns usually have a problem here also. Working the bolt from the prone position seems to cause the most problems. You have to break then re-acquire your NPOA (natural point of aim) every time you work the bolt, many people who are learning the fundamentals just can't do it fast enough.

Last stage is 10 shots in 4 minutes from prone. Easy for a bolt gun.

Last edited by 45_auto; July 2, 2013 at 07:05 AM.
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Old July 2, 2013, 04:46 PM   #16
baddarryl
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I've been an Appleseed instructor for a while, and my observation has been that bolt actions make the Appleseed a little more difficult for new shooters, but not that big of a deal if you're a practiced shooter. The second and third stages are what hurts the new bolt gunners. I shoot in the 230's with my 10/22 semi or CZ452 bolt gun, doesn't make any difference which one I'm shooting. I shoot in the low 220's with my S&W M&P 15-22, the sling seems to flex the barrel in the plastic receiver and it won't group as consistently as the other 2.

Quote:
First stage is 10 shots standing in 2 minutes. Easy with a bolt gun.

Second stage is 55 seconds. Start standing, drop to sitting or kneeling. Shoot 2 rounds, mandatory reload, then shoot 8 rounds. Bolt guns usually have a problem with this stage. Getting into position and reloading eats up at least 5 seconds, so you have to average a shot every 4 seconds or so.

Third stage is 65 seconds. Start standing, drop to prone. Shoot 2 shots, mandatory reload, then 8 shots. Bolt guns usually have a problem here also. Working the bolt from the prone position seems to cause the most problems. You have to break then re-acquire your NPOA (natural point of aim) every time you work the bolt, many people who are learning the fundamentals just can't do it fast enough.

Last stage is 10 shots in 4 minutes from prone. Easy for a bolt gun.
Thank you so much. That is exactly what I was looking for. See anyone using tube fed semis? Handicap for them? Thanks again.

Last edited by baddarryl; July 2, 2013 at 05:46 PM.
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