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Old July 3, 2013, 09:00 AM   #1
Katsumi Liquer
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M1 Carbine - Sighting-In Problem

Hello, all.

My good friend recently inherited his late-father-in-law's M1 Carbine. The rifle is in mint condition--the bluing is nigh-perfect and the wood stock has nary a ding or dent in it. It looks, for all intents and purposes, brand new and unfired.

Now the problem:

The rifle is extremely accurate. At 50 yards, properly benched, it will hold sub-3" groups using either his handloads or 110 gr. S&B ammo. However, the groups are a full 24" above the point of aim, despite the the rear sight being adjusted to its lowest position:




The front sight post is apparently not adjustable for elevation:




Any suggestions as to what might be going on, and how we can fix the problem?

Thanks!


(BTW, the red dust is just lint from the gun sock.)
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Old July 3, 2013, 09:38 AM   #2
tahunua001
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first suggestion, take a lint free rag to it and get all those little rusty strands of steel wool off of it before they start to spread.


2nd, I'm not sure with M1 carbines but the standard battle zero for most weapons, US or otherwise had 300 yard battle zeros, since the carbine is a relatively anemic cartridge I'd say it's more likely to have been reduced to 200 yards. but again, that is purely conjecture on my part. you may need a higher front sight post.
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Old July 3, 2013, 09:39 AM   #3
Old Stony
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Is this like maybe an Iver Johnson or Universal carbine?
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Old July 3, 2013, 10:08 AM   #4
Katsumi Liquer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Stony
Is this like maybe an Iver Johnson or Universal carbine?
It's a Universal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tahunua001
you may need a higher front sight post.
He's been scouring the net looking for a replacement front sight with a taller blade--no joy. Most of the ones available are the GI standard version with the horizontal crosspin, which won't fit the Universal.
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Old July 3, 2013, 10:17 AM   #5
thallub
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Quote:
Is this like maybe an Iver Johnson or Universal carbine?
Methinks the gun is an Iver Johnson or Universal carbine. The front sight is not right for a military M1 carbine. The military front sights were held in place by a key and pin.

http://www.chestnutridge.com/cpic.asp


Iver Johnson and Universal carbines can be exasperating.
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Old July 3, 2013, 01:46 PM   #6
Dfariswheel
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Probably, the front sight is too low, causing the rifle to shoot high.
Possibly someone cut the sight down for some reason.

About your only option is to get a higher front sight. This will lower the groups.
If the groups are then too low, simply file the front sight down a tiny bit at a time until it targets.

Gun Parts Corp is out of stock on Universal front sights. You might try Jack First Gun Parts.

It's possible a standard M1 Carbine front sight could have a hole drilled and tapped where the Universal sight has the set screw and it could be used on your rifle.

Another, less satisfactory repair would be to build up the sight blade with something like JB Weld or even by Tig welding it. After building it up, then shoot and file to get it on target.
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Old July 3, 2013, 01:57 PM   #7
RickB
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Maybe the barrel is bent? My USGI Carbine shoots a bit high relative to the yardage markings on the sight, but it's a couple of inches high.
You could have some additional material soldered onto the front sight, then file it down to match the rear sight settings.
Since the front sight is pretty well protected, you could probably get away with epoxying a piece of metal, or even plastic, to the sight post, and trim it to the correct height. Unless the gun is going to spend a lot of time "in the field", such a light-duty fix would probably work.
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Old July 3, 2013, 02:07 PM   #8
dahermit
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Quote:
Maybe the barrel is bent?
My thinking too. If it has a bayonet lug, someone could have easily bent the barrel using the bayonet too vigorously.
I have a Winchester M1 Carbine with which I compared my front sight to the picture...it looked identical in height to mine.
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Old July 3, 2013, 03:03 PM   #9
Old Stony
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I think some of the same procedures I've used with muzzleloaders over the years might help. I have a small wire feed welder and turned down to the lowest setting, you can use one to build up the front sight. Dress up the sides of the bead with a file, and just shoot it and file until you get it to the right height.
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Old July 3, 2013, 04:25 PM   #10
Bake
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Quick & Dirty fix, intill you can find a new taller front sight, you might try removing the allen screw and replaceing it with a screw about a half an inch longer, or more. File it drown for a good zero, and measure its height and then "Get lucky" and find your new sight...
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Old July 3, 2013, 05:52 PM   #11
Katsumi Liquer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bake
Quick & Dirty fix, intill you can find a new taller front sight, you might try removing the allen screw and replaceing it with a screw about a half an inch longer, or more. File it drown for a good zero, and measure its height and then "Get lucky" and find your new sight...
So the Allen screw becomes the new front sight post. Now this is thinking outside the box!
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