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Old June 17, 2013, 08:50 PM   #1
new_camper
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What will replace the AR in AWB states

In light of all of the legislation over the past few months I cant help but think that one day the AR will be for all practical purposes banned in several states. This has left me wondering, will manufacturers simply design a new rifle to get around the Ar laws? I know that there is probably nothing that will ever come close to the popularity of the Ar platform (don't jump on me about the AK since the legislation seems to be targeted at the AR). What do you more experienced shooters think will happen?
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Old June 17, 2013, 08:53 PM   #2
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I see the SKS being a possible alternative since it has an internal magazine
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Old June 17, 2013, 09:28 PM   #3
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Re: What will replace the AR in AWB states

Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota.potts View Post
I see the SKS being a possible alternative since it has an internal magazine
Except some have both a bayonet lug and a flash hider which makes them a no-no in most ban states.

What should be used instead? M1 Garand
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Old June 17, 2013, 09:38 PM   #4
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California style ARs. New York already has them.

I would rather get a barrel without a gas port drilled into it. It'll be a straight pull bolt rifle, but once in free country, drill that hole and you're GTG.
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Old June 17, 2013, 09:48 PM   #5
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I have seen "featureless" AR-15s before that are pretty cool. Just fix a magazine in one of those. Of course they'll keep finding ways to outlaw those... Imagine what happens when they learn how quickly you can load from a stripper clip.
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Old June 18, 2013, 08:51 AM   #6
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Someone should design a rifle like the AR just for these so called ban states; not just a modification of the AR. I am thinking something like a hybrid between the M1 Garand and the AR.

Actually a 10 shot M1 Garand in 5.56x45 with a shorter overall length would be just about perfect.
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Old June 18, 2013, 09:14 AM   #7
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A good lever action?
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Old June 18, 2013, 09:14 AM   #8
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Given the ridiculous new lows that some of these states seem to be willing to stoop to, I wouldn't be surprised if many of their gun-owning residents replace (or probably supplement) their AR-15's with U-Haul trucks and move the heck out.
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Old June 18, 2013, 09:16 AM   #9
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Quote:
I am thinking something like a hybrid between the M1 Garand and the AR... Actually a 10 shot M1 Garand in 5.56x45 with a shorter overall length would be just about perfect.
You mean something like a Mini-14 Ranch Rifle?
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Old June 18, 2013, 09:26 AM   #10
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Quote:
A good lever action...
...could be workable, but the shooter must move the firing hand from the grip to reload. Plus, the majority of lever platforms won't take a box magazine.

I'm curious whether any gunmakers are working on the following:
  • A Winchester M1895-type lever rifle that takes detachable box mags (i.e. standard AR or AK mags).
  • A slide-action rifle that accepts same. Compared to a lever, a slide rifle is arguably easier to reload rapidly without disturbing the sight picture. IMHO the only major reason slide rifles have fallen from favor is that cheap and reliable semi-autos stole their thunder, but recent changes in state laws could breathe new life into them if a gunmaker comes up with an attractive and reasonably-priced "tactical slide". (How's that for a new buzzword? )
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Last edited by carguychris; June 18, 2013 at 09:30 AM. Reason: info added...
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Old June 18, 2013, 09:31 AM   #11
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Quote:
You mean something like a Mini-14 Ranch Rifle?
Takes a detachable magazine and if California has their way Bullet Buttons will no longer fix that little problem.

I am talking about a design that loads with a "clip" like the M1 Garand, that holds 10 rounds of 5.56MM ammo. Cut the barrel down to 16 or 18 inches and add at least a top rail. Sort of like a modern M1A but with the Garand's loading mechanism and in 5.56.


I am talking about something that could only be banned by a state through the action of banning all semi-automatic rifles.
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Old June 18, 2013, 09:41 AM   #12
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Quote:
[The Mini-14] takes a detachable magazine and if California has their way Bullet Buttons will no longer fix that little problem... I am talking about a design that loads with a "clip" like the M1 Garand, that holds 10 rounds of 5.56MM ammo.
OK, gotcha. I was thinking that it wouldn't be too hard to redesign the Mini-14 to use a fixed 10rd mag and reload with a stripper clip from the top, but a Garand-style en bloc clip is a taller order.

The concept seems workable though.
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Old June 18, 2013, 09:43 AM   #13
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How about an autoloading hunting style rifle, using AR magazines for .223 and .308 versions.
With accessories and options, including various stock configurations, quick mag release, light and sight rails, slings, 'etc.
But keep the non-threating look, similar to the Ruger Mini.
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Old June 18, 2013, 11:28 AM   #14
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Isn't there a Remington pump rifle that uses AR magazines?
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Old June 18, 2013, 01:31 PM   #15
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I didn't know remington made one of those. Sounds interesting.
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Old June 18, 2013, 01:37 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.willikers
How about an autoloading hunting style rifle, using AR magazines for .223 and .308 versions... With accessories and options, including various stock configurations, quick mag release, light and sight rails, slings, 'etc... But keep the non-threat[en]ing look, similar to the Ruger Mini.
The trouble is that an increasing number of state laws are making those "accessories and options" and that "non-threatening look" mutually irreconcilable.

The first problem is that IIRC the new laws in several northeastern states now define an "assault rifle" as any semi-auto having merely ONE so-called "military style" feature, and that feature is generally defined as almost any type of fancy stock, and/or the ability to readily accept a foregrip, regardless of whether one comes attached to the rifle as delivered. If you can't use a collapsible, folding, or thumbhole stock, and you can't have forward-mounted rails... what's left?

The second problem is that CA is either about to, or already has (I don't remember which), outlaw "bullet buttons". IOW CA will soon allow fixed mags only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by g.willikers
Isn't there a Remington pump rifle that uses AR magazines?
Apparently there is, and it's called the 7615P. I think I remember hearing about it, but I had blocked it from my memory banks!

http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/7615.htm
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Old June 18, 2013, 04:09 PM   #17
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80% AR receivers? How about AR-10"s? Maybe not in California... but elsewhere in certain AWBanned states?
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Old June 18, 2013, 04:23 PM   #18
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-bolt action rifle.
-semi auto with a fixed 5 round magazine.
-M1 Garand.
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Old June 18, 2013, 04:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
80% AR receivers? How about AR-10"s?
Someone would have to figure out a way to do away with the pistol grip, without using a thumbhole stock.

Although I'm no AR expert, I'm familiar with the general design, and my hunch is that making a "compliant" AR would require a redesign so extensive that the resulting rifle wouldn't really be an AR anymore.

I surmise that this is why Patriot86 suggests using the Garand as a template. I tend to agree that it would make a good starting point.
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Old June 18, 2013, 04:36 PM   #20
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"What will replace the AR in AWB states" ???

Mass cowardice (Called "compliance") followed by Subjection and slavery.
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Old June 18, 2013, 05:06 PM   #21
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Bullet Buttons will reign supreme. I have one on mine, but my time is running short.

I'm not exactly sure how they're gonna deal with rifles owners such as myself who have rifles post-CA AWB, pre-Bullet Button ban
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Old June 18, 2013, 05:27 PM   #22
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The fixed mag part is easy. You can still have a box mag as long as a "tool" is needed to remove it. We just replace the bullet button with a button that takes a "tool" to engage. The law say nothing about what type of tool you must use. I'm sure we can come up with a "tool" that will remove the mag pretty quick. I'm thinking some type of rotating switch that takes a strait slot screw driver. You just give it a half turn and the mag falls out. When you replace the mag the switch automaticly returns to lock.

Will they let you own spare "fixed" mag... that I don't know.


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Old June 18, 2013, 06:23 PM   #23
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What rifles are criminals being forced to switch to?
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Old June 18, 2013, 06:29 PM   #24
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From Boomer:
" We just replace the bullet button with a button that takes a "tool" to engage."

Like a beer can pop top?
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Old June 18, 2013, 06:34 PM   #25
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Momentum is in our favor. There are more states easing gun control than tightening it. The states that have restricted certain features will come around in my opinion. I think this is temporary. The AR is too much mainstream now to be held back.

Much like prohibition failed in the 1920's, AR bans will eventually fail too.

This is going to make many of these states re-think their positions if the trend continues.

http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/0...-control-laws/
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