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Old June 20, 2013, 08:11 AM   #76
Winchester_73
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I do not understand the logic behind this thread. It seems that versatility of a particular caliber would be a moot point to this population of people who almost all have handguns in multiple calibers, that they would use for different applications instead of adapting the .44 to that purpose. Someone please explain it to me...it strikes me as "how many angles can dance on the head of a pin", argument.
Its an interesting topic in today's world, where someone might be limited to 2 or 3 pistols, or perhaps even 1, where they need it to fill in for multiple roles. I don't find the 44 mag to be as versatile as a 357 mag, whether you handload or not. On the other hand, it can of course do more than a 45 acp semi, or a 9mm semi or say a 32 revolver.
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Old June 20, 2013, 02:31 PM   #77
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I may have a solution.

In the 45 v 44 debate, I have both.







Which to use when real... I mean REAL power is needed?

This one...





There, problem solved.
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Old June 20, 2013, 04:53 PM   #78
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How does that fit in a holster?
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Old June 21, 2013, 10:23 PM   #79
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There are a significant number of commercial and handmade 'Ruger-only" .45 Colt loads with the potential of blowing up lesser guns if misunderstood, mislabeled or misused. Not even all modern Rugers are capable of handling them, let alone the others.

I'm sure you're aware that there are .38 Special loads that would be unwise to use in many older Airweight J frames or inexpensive/imported 38 Specials or pre heat treated S&W's and Colt's ... right?

38/44

Super Vel

+P+

for example..


I don't see that situation being any different than Heavy loaded 45 Colts.

Personally , I like the 44 Mag and 45 Colt for all arounders. A 4" N frame or 4 5/8" Blackhawk isn't much harder to carry/conceal than a 4" mid frame 357 IMO.
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Old June 21, 2013, 11:17 PM   #80
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versatility, well versatility means that an object can be used for more then one thing.........

well lets get dirty.

a 357 would seem to be the most versatile cartridge in this debate. ive seen online statistics that claim that 75 percent of the population can actually handle the recoil of this cartridge in a standard service revolver. while a whopping 30 percent can handle the 44 magnum in a standard service gun.
those cartridges were not the big post kieth 300 grain slugs, they were the standard original 240 grain jsp/jhp/swc in the 44 mag as loaded in winchester white box. and 158 grain jsp/jhp/swc in the same box label.

youtube has a lot of videos of small sized people shooting 357s up the butt. i think i stopped counting at 29 videos. i dont believe i found more then 3 videos of small sized people shooting a 44 magnum.. and the ones that were i believe were using 44 specials or specially loaded light 44 mags in it.
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Old June 22, 2013, 08:07 AM   #81
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versatility, well versatility means that an object can be used for more then one thing.........
Quote:
a 357 would seem to be the most versatile cartridge in this debate. ive seen online statistics that claim that 75 percent of the population can actually handle the recoil of this cartridge in a standard service revolver. while a whopping 30 percent can handle the 44 magnum in a standard service gun.
Quote:
youtube has a lot of videos of small sized people shooting 357s up the butt. i think i stopped counting at 29 videos. i dont believe i found more then 3 videos of small sized people shooting a 44 magnum.. and the ones that were i believe were using 44 specials or specially loaded light 44 mags in it.

Seems you just contradicted yourself all inside the same post.

If only 30% of the population can handle the 44 Mag factory load, yet someone small can handle "specially loaded" as in hand loaded , "light loaded 44 mags" then the conclusion I would draw from your post is that the 44 has a much wider range low to high, than the 357 which 75% can handle at full power.

The only place I seeing the .357 having an advantage is that it's chambered in guns that can fit in your pocket with ease.

Being someone who isn't a big fan of pocket carry , that advantage isn't all that relevant IMO.

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Old June 22, 2013, 08:12 AM   #82
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I don't believe that a person's size or strength has anything to do with handling recoil. Flinching is psycological. Sometimes I think recoil even hurts less if you fight it less.
No one is strong enough to prevent a gun from recoiling. The chamber pressure times the bullet's base area = thousands of pounds of force accelerating the bullet and accelerating the gun in the other direction. All we can do is stop the gun after the forces are gone.

Being big and strong is no guarantee that you can handle recoil without flinching and being small does not preclude your ability to handle recoil without flinching.
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Old June 22, 2013, 08:18 AM   #83
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i dont believe i found more then 3 videos of small sized people shooting a 44 magnum..
I also don't believe the number of vids on "youtube" is the best way to support or refute an argument.
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Old June 22, 2013, 08:20 AM   #84
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How about 10mm?
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Old June 22, 2013, 08:28 AM   #85
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How about 10mm? ]
What range of bullet weights are available for the 10mm?
The 44 goes from about 160gr to 300+ gr.


Will a Glock , Delta Elite or similar function with a light bullet at 600fps? (not an issue if it's in a S&W 610)

Will the same pistol function with a 300gr @ 1250fps?
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Old June 22, 2013, 09:11 AM   #86
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What range of bullet weights are available for the 10mm?
The 44 goes from about 160gr to 300+ gr.
122 grains if you include the .433 round balls for muzzleloaders.
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Old June 22, 2013, 10:50 AM   #87
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versatility, well versatility means that an object can be used for more then one thing.........
....and in my experience, things that are truly versatile are not exceptional at all of those things. They excel at one or two and are at best, adequate for the rest.

Except maybe for a good GWP.:
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Old June 22, 2013, 04:35 PM   #88
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44Magnum The Most Versatile Handgun Caliber

For me, the most versatile handgun caliber should have a wide power range, have combat history, be easy to reload, be accurate, and be used by a wide variety of handguns: semi-auto, revolver, and single shot.

Since the adoption of modern center-fire handgun ammo 45 caliber has dominated, and is (for me) the dominant and most versatile handgun caliber ever, from the 45 Schofield to the S&W 460, they all shoot 45 cal bullets, giving the handgun shooter an unparalleled variety of 45 cal cartridges.

Now to get a S&W 460XVR snubby and shoot 45 Schofield, 45 Colt, 45 Webley, 45 ACP, 45 Super, 454 Casull and 460 S&W, all out of one gun.
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Old June 24, 2013, 06:27 PM   #89
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I have a S&W 29-2, 6-1/2". (I saw Dirty Harry at a young and impressionable age). I use the Lyman 429421 Keith bullet. I load it with 4gr Bullseye for PPC, 8 gr of Unique for bowling pins and 18gr of 2400 for metallic silhouettes. Seems pretty versatile to me.

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Old June 25, 2013, 09:22 AM   #90
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Subject is plenty subjective. Each has a view of what is most versatile in their own mind. Mine is .45 Colt. Load up or down for puff loads to knock down the animals of Africa with option of heavier bullets and bigger hole. That makes the .45 Colt 'versatile in my mind as it will do all I ever need doing in a reasonable size/weight platform. And I 'like' it. Now someone else could argue the .357, .41, or .44 is 'the' cartridge of choice.... But in reality, any more, it is a personal preference and where you plan on using your revolver.... And most of us have more than one caliber to pick from anyway . My simple thoughts on the subject.
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Old June 25, 2013, 10:29 AM   #91
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totally an angels on the head of a pin argument, but so are half of the gun articles out there.

If "most versatile handgun" means able to handle the largest number of roles...

Then I would actually give the crown to a lightweight 4" .44magnum doubleaction revolver.

.44spcl load for home defense
.44spcl load for CCW (yeah it's large, but conceivable)
.44birdshot for snake-spray
.44mag for hunting
.44mag for bear-spray


Where I live there are no bears. So for this area, I'd say the most versatile all around is a K-frame .357, simply because the bear role is not applicable here.


If this were "most versatile gun" then we'd be talking a 12 gauge pump.


Personal note, I haven't had a 'excessively powerful' handgun in a long time (a desert eagle long ago), and I do kinda miss having something that goes BANG! to play with at the range. Been seriously thinking about getting a .44mag. Then again, I have HD/CCW/plinking all covered already and I don't hunt, so it's really just for the loud bang, kinda pricey for a loud sound hehe.
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Old June 27, 2013, 11:43 PM   #92
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if .44 magnum is the most versatile, why is it that only two or 3 CUSTOM AMMUNITION companies make true self defense loads for the 44 mag?

i have yet to find a company that doesnt make .357 mag loads for self defense.
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Old June 28, 2013, 12:56 AM   #93
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There is more to versatility than self defense. But maybe you don't find it because you don't need the special, super fantastic whiz bang round for 44 in a defensive situation.
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Old June 30, 2013, 07:19 PM   #94
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if .44 magnum is the most versatile, why is it that only two or 3 CUSTOM AMMUNITION companies make true self defense loads for the 44 mag?
Cause dang near any .44 Magnum or .44 Special load will get the job done.

Yes the deer hunting loads are a might to harsh but there are plenty of .44 loads that are fine for SD.

Catch is most .44 magnums are to big and heavy for constant SD duty.

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Old June 30, 2013, 09:04 PM   #95
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How about 10mm?

What range of bullet weights are available for the 10mm?
The 44 goes from about 160gr to 300+ gr.


Will a Glock , Delta Elite or similar function with a light bullet at 600fps? (not an issue if it's in a S&W 610)

Will the same pistol function with a 300gr @ 1250fps?
Point taken, however the Glock 20/29 are high capacity autoloaders which offer much more advantages over a wheel gun. (IN 10MM)

Sure, for max hunting power a 6 shot .44 magnum with 300 grainers is a good choice. But in reality, how much handgun hunting do most of our forum members actually do? In addition, if we look at people with carry permits, (me, for instance) I do not intend to carry a .44 magnum at anytime. It is simply to heavy and too fat for proper carry.

So considering those characteristics, a .44 magnum wheel gun isn't versitile at all. Let's also consider repairs and tuning of a wheel gun (got Gunsmith and the wait time?). Certainly not as easy as a modular handgun like a GLOCK that my 14 year old daughter can overhaul with a stick. Barrel change? No problem. Change out springs? No problem. Replace the trigger group? No problem, one minute 46 seconds it's a done deal. Cost...? A .44 magnum cost bucks for factory and even reloading is more expensive than a 10MM or .40.

Capacity..? 6 shots at best. Reloading capability? Slow. A Glock in 10MM, 16 rounds of fast ammo from 135 grain all the way up to 220 grain. 16 rounds that are faster at 100 yards than a .45ACP is at the muzzle. Some over 700 foot pounds of energy. Reloading capability? Fast. 3 seconds for another 15 rounds. There are plenty of boolet options for 10MM as well. Being .40 caliber, which is a popular round, components are available in bulk.

Go swimming with your GLOCK? Not a problem.

Drop your GLOCK in the Mud? Pick it up and shoot it.

Glocks are cheap, buy two.

I get attached to beautiful, stainless wheel guns. Glocks, not so much.
A GLOCK is a tool, a nice tuned wheel gun is a piece of artwork.

Want to shoot .40 caliber? Want to shoot .357 SIG? Want to shoot 9X25 dillon? Not a problem with a GLOCK 20/29. Just a barrel change and you can even use the same magazines!

Want to carry concealed? A Glock 29 works better than a .44 Magnum wheel gun.

So I really think 10MM is quite versitile. Except for perhaps a top bullet weight over 220 grains in a well built, outside the waistband holster on a hunting trip in angry bear country. Then the .44 magnum will do that job just fine.

One more option on these GLOCK 20s that make the 10MM round and the GLOCK handgun more versitile; The MECH-TECH carbine (CCU) which turns the GLOCK 20 into a Carbine. The long stainless barrel really ramps up the speed and knock down power of the 10MM cartridge (close to 2000 FPS for some boolet weights). A real powerhouse of hunting capability; with a nice cheap red dot you can reach out a long way.

It lets me have 2 capable guns with the same ammunition. Another good thing. Although, my .44 lever gun and .44 smith would also make a good companion combo. Personally, the lever gun really hurts my shoulder after a few dozen rounds. Ouch. (yes, I'am getting old).

Just my opinion.



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Old June 30, 2013, 09:28 PM   #96
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Well....yes....it is. If you reload....you can not do much better...and most of us that use .44 mags also own one or more .44 Special....that can "almost"
do it all...and you can use the same projectiles...I guess I use the Specials 90 percent of the time....but when I NEED the mag......I have it. Not a bad option...
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Old July 1, 2013, 07:39 PM   #97
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Versatility is a loaded question.

It depends on what it is you want it to do.

It depends on ones ability to handle a revolver.

There are many fine calibers of revolver that are "versital" with in ones ability to be able to use and control and hit what there are aiming at.
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Old July 3, 2013, 07:12 PM   #98
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Point taken, however the Glock 20/29 are high capacity autoloaders which offer much more advantages over a wheel gun. (IN 10MM)

Sure, for max hunting power a 6 shot .44 magnum with 300 grainers is a good choice. But in reality, how much handgun hunting do most of our forum members actually do? In addition, if we look at people with carry permits, (me, for instance) I do not intend to carry a .44 magnum at anytime. It is simply to heavy and too fat for proper carry.

So considering those characteristics, a .44 magnum wheel gun isn't versitile at all. Let's also consider repairs and tuning of a wheel gun (got Gunsmith and the wait time?). Certainly not as easy as a modular handgun like a GLOCK that my 14 year old daughter can overhaul with a stick. Barrel change? No problem. Change out springs? No problem. Replace the trigger group? No problem, one minute 46 seconds it's a done deal. Cost...? A .44 magnum cost bucks for factory and even reloading is more expensive than a 10MM or .40.

Capacity..? 6 shots at best. Reloading capability? Slow. A Glock in 10MM, 16 rounds of fast ammo from 135 grain all the way up to 220 grain. 16 rounds that are faster at 100 yards than a .45ACP is at the muzzle. Some over 700 foot pounds of energy. Reloading capability? Fast. 3 seconds for another 15 rounds. There are plenty of boolet options for 10MM as well. Being .40 caliber, which is a popular round, components are available in bulk.

Go swimming with your GLOCK? Not a problem.

Drop your GLOCK in the Mud? Pick it up and shoot it.

Glocks are cheap, buy two.

I get attached to beautiful, stainless wheel guns. Glocks, not so much.
A GLOCK is a tool, a nice tuned wheel gun is a piece of artwork.

Want to shoot .40 caliber? Want to shoot .357 SIG? Want to shoot 9X25 dillon? Not a problem with a GLOCK 20/29. Just a barrel change and you can even use the same magazines!

Want to carry concealed? A Glock 29 works better than a .44 Magnum wheel gun.

So I really think 10MM is quite versitile. Except for perhaps a top bullet weight over 220 grains in a well built, outside the waistband holster on a hunting trip in angry bear country. Then the .44 magnum will do that job just fine.

One more option on these GLOCK 20s that make the 10MM round and the GLOCK handgun more versitile; The MECH-TECH carbine (CCU) which turns the GLOCK 20 into a Carbine. The long stainless barrel really ramps up the speed and knock down power of the 10MM cartridge (close to 2000 FPS for some boolet weights). A real powerhouse of hunting capability; with a nice cheap red dot you can reach out a long way.

It lets me have 2 capable guns with the same ammunition. Another good thing. Although, my .44 lever gun and .44 smith would also make a good companion combo. Personally, the lever gun really hurts my shoulder after a few dozen rounds. Ouch. (yes, I'am getting old).

You've made an excellent argument for the versatility of the GLOCK.... much more so than the 10mm round

I'll gladly agree that the Glock is a versatile piece of hardware.

To be honest.... speaking only for myself... I find the fat grip of the Glock and the back part of the slide that protrudes a good way past the grip harder to conceal than the cylinder of a 44.

IMO the grip area of a handgun is the hardest part to conceal, and a large revolver with the right grips disappear rather easily.

The weight issue is negated by a good holster/belt combo.

Most any auto is going to beat out most revolvers in capacity...Can't argue against the Glock there.

The 10mm round is still limited to the parameters that will make the Glock function.

I still believe this discussion to be about the versatility of the cartridge/caliber.. not the instruments that launch them. That's an entirely different discussion IMO.
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Old July 3, 2013, 07:41 PM   #99
Creek Henry
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Also, you can use one of these to shoot a 44 slug or ratshot from a shorgun... Talk about versatile

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Old July 7, 2013, 02:24 PM   #100
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Using appropriate bullets and powders I can load super duper or super pooper.

Maybe what it is, is the most versatile revolver cartridge?
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