The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Semi-automatics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 15, 2013, 03:06 PM   #1
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,435
CMP M1 Range Report... finally

hello all,
I've had a springfield M1 garand service grade since February but I've been waiting on M2 ball to actually take it out. the ammo arrived a couple weeks back but so far all I've done is put a single clip through it as a function test.

well today for reasons still unknown to me I decided I'd load it up and go to the local CMP shoot. as we have a smaller group than most all US service rifles compete side by side which had me nervous since there were more 1903A3s than M1s. in retrospect I probably should have zeroed it long before I attempted to compete with it... 5 sighters just wasn't enough. I spent most of the first battery trying to get it on point. however by the end of the match I was holding my own with many of the more seasoned competitors. there was less than a dozen shooters but I still managed to take home the bronze...

3rd place aint bad for the first time actually shooting.

the groups were not great... not sure if that was a reflection on me or the rifle but either way... I'm satisfied with it's reliability and it's accurate enough for deer though I doubt I'd ever take it hunting.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Old June 16, 2013, 01:42 PM   #2
P5 Guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2005
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 1,175
Sounds Like Fun

It sounds to me like you did pretty good! And had an educating time at the range also.
P5 Guy is offline  
Old June 16, 2013, 02:23 PM   #3
kraigwy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 9,513
Sounds like 5 sighters was enough if you came in third.

Actually five sighers is more then enough for a Garand. The Garand, and its child the M-14 has the best iron sights ever put on a military rifle.

I went through this yesterday where I conducted a CMP GSM Clinic and match.

You can sight a Garand in at any range and know exactly where it will shot at any other range. The clicks, both elevation are accurate.

The first time I shot my then DCM Garand was in a High Power match. Not one round did I fire before the two sighters at 200 yard standing offhand.

I put eight clicks, got a good call adjusted and frond I needed 11 clicks up for 200 yards. Finished the match with that being my zero.

That was in 1980. I loaned that same rifle to a gun shooting the match, I told him to put 9 on and go for it (we were shooting a 100 yard reduced match).

I told him to adjust the sights as needed. I checked the rifle after he finished and it was 9 up.

Once you get a zero at any range, set the elevation indicator (the dial with the numbers) for that zero and you're good all the way out without having to click.

If you use any ammo that resembles ammo for a Garand (2600-2700) you can throw away your ballistic tables. Don't need them, the M1 has a mind of its own. All you have to do is set the sights on what ever range you are shooting and let her rip, the Garand will take care of the rest of it.

I have some fancy target rifles with fancy expensive sights but none are as dependable as the Garand or M14/M1a (same sights) as far as knowing where I'm at any time I look at the sights.
__________________
Kraig Stuart
CPT USAR Ret
USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
kraigwy is offline  
Old June 16, 2013, 02:32 PM   #4
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,435
ok I guess for clarity's sake we shoot 100 yard reduced course here.
I ended up throwing a lot of shots into the 8 and 7 ring during the prone slow fire portion and ended up having to make one more adjustment, I think I accidentally went the wrong direction with the elevation after my last sighter. I made one more sight adjustment after the prone portion, not sure if that's against the rules or not but I did and was able to get a lot more in the black rings during rapid fire and standing portions. I will say this, an M1 is heavy as heck to shoot without a sling while standing.

I'm sure that if I shot again those 5 sighters would be more than adequate but for a first time zero and a person with no idea what he was doing I would say they did pretty good. I still prefer the peeps on the 1903A3 and 1917 better but the M1 definitely has the most precise increments and most adjustments.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Old June 16, 2013, 05:02 PM   #5
kraigwy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 9,513
I wasn't talking about the shooter (getting third in the first Garand match is good), I was raving about the Garand.

As to sights:

The Model 1917 had no means for wind age adjustment. The latter only could be adjusted in 100 yard increments.

The 1903a3 had better sights. Again, 100 yard increments except it limited out at 800 yards. The 'a3 did have windage adjustments but were 4 MOA.

The 10-X ring on the SR-1 target is 3.5 MOA so if you were just in the "9" at 3 o'clock, moving left one click would put you in the 9 ring at 9 o'clock.

Both are great rifles, I have both and wouldn't trade them for any thing. But the Garand, and its 1 MOA windage and elevation is in a whole other world.

As a side note: I have a K 2.5 Weaver on my 'A4. It had 1 MOA clicks. I use the same ammo in both and the same adjustments all the way out.

The most interesting, (though confusing to the soldier) is the 1901 sights for the Krag.

The leaf is marked from 100 - 2000 yards. The 2000 yard mark has its own notch. The slider has a notch that is used with the sight folded down, battle sight zero, which is 375 yards. But that's not all. The slider also has a peep for use from 450 to 1900 yards. The slider also has a second peep for 175 to 1750.

Windage adjustments on the Krag is unique. It has two bases, the top base swivels on the bottom base allowing for adjustment. The sight is marked with windage graduations. Each point is 5.86 MOA.

Quite a feat of engineering, but as you can see, it would be complicated for the average soldier.

Compared to other military rifles, the US has been way a head of other countries in the sight department,

But the Garand, in my opinion is the most user friendly and accurate.
__________________
Kraig Stuart
CPT USAR Ret
USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
kraigwy is offline  
Old June 16, 2013, 05:16 PM   #6
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,435
yes, for adjustment and zero the M1s is without equal. I just don't like the sight picture as much as the others... it's difficult to explain.... oh well, the next shoot in the area isn't until november and I'll either be stuck studying or living out in a tent in the mountains so I probably won't have the chance to compete again until 2014. plenty of time to fine tune the sights... I might even invest in some of the reduced targets to practice with in the mean time.


I wish that non US service arms were permited, I would love to take my type 44 arisaka out.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Old June 16, 2013, 05:42 PM   #7
kraigwy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 9,513
Quote:
I wish that non US service arms were permited, I would love to take my type 44 arisaka out.
They are. The CMP GSM matches are designed for military rifles made prior to the Korean Warm

G: Garand
S: Springfield
M: Military, meaning all other military rifles, US and Foreign, meaning the M1917, Krag, Mausers, Enfields, Swedes, Swiss, Mosin Nagant, etc etc AND the Arisaka.

They have also added a Modern Military Event, M14/M1A, SKS, FN FAL, AR's etc.
__________________
Kraig Stuart
CPT USAR Ret
USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
kraigwy is offline  
Old June 16, 2013, 05:46 PM   #8
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,435
oh... I was under the impression that it was just US service arms from 1898 through korea... I may have some work to do getting my t44 back up to snuf.
thanks kraig.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Old June 19, 2013, 11:07 AM   #9
Mike40-11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 817
Quote:
Windage adjustments on the Krag is unique. It has two bases, the top base swivels on the bottom base allowing for adjustment. The sight is marked with windage graduations. Each point is 5.86 MOA.

Quite a feat of engineering, but as you can see, it would be complicated for the average soldier.
Not to get too off topic but... Moderately complicated, especially compared to the simple and excellent windage adjustment on the Garand but not unique and not unfamiliar to the soldiers. Very similar to the Buffington sight on the Springfield Trapdoors they'd been using for the last 30 years or so.
Mike40-11 is offline  
Old June 20, 2013, 08:52 AM   #10
kraigwy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 9,513
Last night I was suppose to meet someone at the range in town to work with her and her new revolver.

I showed up a couple hours early to whack some gongs out there at 300 yards with my M1903s4.

Just for kicks I through my Garand in the truck. After getting bored with the 'a4 which was doing quite well I dug out the Garand. I found I could hit them just as easier, maybe a tad better with the iron sighted M1.

Old as that puppy it, its still quite a rifle.
__________________
Kraig Stuart
CPT USAR Ret
USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
kraigwy is offline  
Old June 20, 2013, 09:23 AM   #11
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,435
gotta love those A4s. the only rifle I was ever able to score consistent hits at 500 meters with was my A4. kindof miss it but one of the rifles I traded for it is also the only open sighted rifle I've ever been able to get consistent hits at 400 yards with as well
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Old June 20, 2013, 10:27 AM   #12
kraigwy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 9,513
Just in case I was misunderstood, the 'A4 I was referring to was the M1903a4, not the M16 variety.
__________________
Kraig Stuart
CPT USAR Ret
USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
kraigwy is offline  
Old June 21, 2013, 07:35 PM   #13
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,435
no misunderstanding here... 1903A4... miss that gun.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Old June 22, 2013, 06:26 AM   #14
Bart B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Posts: 5,232
As of last year, the AR10 (M110) qualifies as a service rifle for NRA matches and is so stated in the High Power rule book:

Quote:
U.S. Rifle, Caliber 7.62 mm M-110 series - In all courses of fire and in all positions the standard 20 round box magazine or a reduced capacity magazine of the same external dimensions will be attached. The flash suppressor may be removed or the rifle may be manufactured without a flash suppressor. Barrel length may not exceed 20 inches, as measured to the end of the rifling in the barrel. The front sling swivel must be attached to the end of the handguard, and must remain in the 6 o-clock position no more than 1/2 inche from its original location. The sights must be of the standard design found on the M-16 series of firearms. Rear sight windage and elevation adjustments may be modified to allow finer adjustments. Plastic covers may be used on the mounting rails on the handguard.
Maybe, some day, they'll be allowed in CMP matches, but not yet.
__________________
US Navy Distinguished Marksman Badge 153
Former US Navy & Palma Rifle Team Member
NRA High Power Master & Long Range High Master
NRA Smallbore Prone Master
Bart B. is online now  
Old June 22, 2013, 02:24 PM   #15
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,435
not trying to start something but I really don't see much relevence in your post Bart.

this was a range report on an M1 garand at a CMP shoot. I don't see what NRA allowing AR10s has to do with this thread?
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09643 seconds with 7 queries