The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Semi-automatics

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old June 15, 2013, 01:14 PM   #1
iGunny40
Member
 
Join Date: June 8, 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 46
Who makes a Good ak47?

I have been looking for a Good Ak47 and I can't decide, all I know Is I want a "Milspec" AKM.

I would like for It to be Milled, not stamped. I also want a chrome lined 16" hammer forged barrel In It.

I have a couple companies In mind like arsenal or black heart International, what are you're thoughts on these companies? If you were to Get an AKM from them, what model would you Get and why?
__________________
Gun control Is like Trying to reduce drunk Driving by making It tougher for sober people to own cars!
iGunny40 is offline  
Old June 15, 2013, 05:22 PM   #2
Quentin2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2009
Location: NorthWest USA
Posts: 1,640
I don't know if "milspec" should be applied here, these things are made from everything even a shovel blade!

Anyway, even the WASR 10 is a good AKM, just start researching the models and one will rise to the top for you. A lot of people like to convert the Saiga but of course it's a stamped receiver like most AKs.
Quentin2 is offline  
Old June 15, 2013, 07:03 PM   #3
buffalo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2009
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 103
Personally I think Milled AK's are a waste of money but if I was going to spend that much money on one i'd go with a Arsenal,i had one years back and it was a very nice rifle.
buffalo is offline  
Old June 15, 2013, 07:34 PM   #4
FrosSsT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 17, 2011
Location: NJ
Posts: 583
Arsenal Inc makes a good AK clone. I have a WASR 10/63 that hasnt given me any issues but compared to the Arsenal it doesn't seem to be built as well.
FrosSsT is offline  
Old June 15, 2013, 10:08 PM   #5
Aberration
Member
 
Join Date: July 14, 2012
Posts: 35
Be careful with the 'Arsenal'. Many people selling Arsenals that are actually FIME. And while it is claimed that they use the same parts to convert them, I am suspecting the quality. Mine was unable to zero easily, I had to move the front site post all the way to the left to get it on at 100 yds.
Aberration is offline  
Old June 15, 2013, 10:17 PM   #6
American Red Neck
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 8, 2013
Posts: 81
saiga 762x39 is the best ak you can get. buy the rifle then convert and there you go..authentic russian ak
American Red Neck is offline  
Old June 15, 2013, 10:24 PM   #7
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 2,012
How are you defining good? IMO, there really aren't any good AK's. most are reliable, but accuracy is always bad by AR standards. They are hard to he optics on with a good mount.
Nathan is offline  
Old June 15, 2013, 10:38 PM   #8
SF Mike
Junior Member
 
Join Date: June 13, 2011
Posts: 7
Agree with Natahn.

There are effective AKs that live up to their designed use.
Fairly rugged and dependable.
They can make you uncomfortable at a couple hundred yards.
That Factor increased with reduced distance.
SF Mike is offline  
Old June 15, 2013, 10:44 PM   #9
JHansenAK47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2011
Posts: 185
Quote:
I would like for It to be Milled
For a milled rifle i'd look for an Arsenal or chinese rifle.
Quote:
I would like for It to be Milled, not stamped.
Milled is extra weight IMO. The actions on milled guns are generally butter smooth but any accuracy gain is going to be minimal with no noticeable difference unless shot off sandbags. Honestly if I wanted bullet proof tough with a heavy chromelined barrel i'd be more inclined towards the VEPR series of rifles.
Quote:
Many people selling Arsenals that are actually FIME
I thought Arsenal more or less owned or controlled FIME group corporately.
http://www.fimegroup.com/About-Us/
http://www.arsenalinc.com/usa/help.p...us&mode=update
They are both in las vegas nevada. Plus FIME group is using the SGL designation on their rifles just like Arsenal was.
__________________
Practical before tactical.
JHansenAK47 is offline  
Old June 15, 2013, 11:04 PM   #10
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,401
along those lines remington makes R15 and R25 AR style rifles and sells them at remington brand prices but in reality those are just DPMS panthers with different stamps on the side...

although a closer analogy would be people buying POS Umarex rimfires made out of pot metal because they have Colt stamped on them. be careful with namebrand purchases as sometimes even brands associated with quality may endorse models made by lower quality manufacturers with the intention of making a quick buck.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Old June 17, 2013, 10:21 AM   #11
spacecoast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2009
Location: Sunshine and Keystone States
Posts: 4,152
My milled Lancaster shoots nice groups (iron sights, Tula steel cased ammo) as shown below but I believe the barrel is SS.

[/IMG]
spacecoast is offline  
Old June 17, 2013, 10:26 PM   #12
spyderdude
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 6, 2006
Posts: 578
I had a Polish Milled AK that was built by Century Arms. The milled AKs are nice and definitely solid in their construction. However the added weight of a milled receiver as opposed to stamped is unnecessary for most practical purposes. There is a reason Russia went back to using stamped receivers when they figured out how to properly assemble the rifles. The Saiga rifles built at Izhmash in Russia are said to be the ones to go with because well they're built where the AK was born and made on the same assembly line as Russia's military issue weapons. I don't think you can get anymore "mil-spec" than that. With that said, I really like my Arsenal SGL21 and is based on the AK-103. I got lucky and ended up buying one of the last ones to be converted by Arsenal before FIME Group took over production of the SGL series. I wouldn't hesitate to pick up a FIME Group rifle either though.
spyderdude is offline  
Old June 17, 2013, 10:51 PM   #13
TXAZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Location: TEXAS!
Posts: 1,475
I've had a milled and stamped Norinco. Both were excellent. If you have the $s Polytech is reputedly top of the line.
__________________
!أنا لست إرهابي
TXAZ is offline  
Old June 17, 2013, 10:57 PM   #14
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 18,482
I've owned a couple of nice milled Bulgarian AKs. Sold them years ago but kept my stamped Hungarian AK. A good quality stamped AK gives up nothing to a milled AK and saves a lot of weight.
__________________
Did you know that there is a TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old June 18, 2013, 11:19 PM   #15
Yung.gunr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2010
Location: Phoenix area
Posts: 1,385
If you want a milled reciever because of it's perceived strength I would go with something like this. It seems to be the best of both worlds, lighter than milled, stronger than stamped. (Vepr, in case link goes bad)

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/comp....html?Itemid=0

DISCAIMER: I've never shot or handled one.
Yung.gunr is offline  
Old June 19, 2013, 02:21 AM   #16
Aaron1100us
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 19, 2011
Posts: 231
Re: Who makes a Good ak47?

I love my Arsenal SLR-101S. Even though its milled, it is not heavy by any means. Very solid and the parts fit together better than some others. Well worth the $$ IMO.
Aaron1100us is offline  
Old June 19, 2013, 03:56 AM   #17
Skarekrow88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 26, 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 139
Go with Arsenal, can't be beaten. I own an Arsenal Saiga SGL-20 (stamped receiver) 7.62x39mm. Had it since 2008, shot it a lot, and it performs just the way it did out of the box. I outshoot my buddy, who owns S&W M&P-15, at 100 yards all day long with my setup. He uses an Aimpoint red dot with 3x magnifier behind it while I use a 4x magnification POSP scope so I'd say thats pretty closely matched up.
__________________
"A life fought for others is a life worth living"
"A good death is its own reward"
"Amat Victoria Curam"
Skarekrow88 is offline  
Old June 19, 2013, 09:17 AM   #18
chrisp51
Member
 
Join Date: April 25, 2012
Location: NC
Posts: 80
I have shot the Inter-ordanance (IO) AKM and it is a nice rifle. See if you can find a used Norinco (Chinese) in good shape.
chrisp51 is offline  
Old June 19, 2013, 06:56 PM   #19
MC 1911
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 144
Arsenal is a top of the line AK and I've had several. For the money I would check out the M&M M-10. They come in several configurations for $600-$800 and are every bit as nice as the Arsenal IMO.

I sold my SGL 21 to get one & have no regrets!!
MC 1911 is offline  
Old June 20, 2013, 01:41 PM   #20
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,118
A stamped MAK90 is as good as they come, its the thickest AK out there and as the previous poser stated, can't tell the difference.

Accurate? All over the map, good ones can be poor and bad ones can be pretty decent. Reliable is the key with an AK and that can vary as well, but the well regarded ones are much better than the junk ones.

As for Mil Spec, there is no such thing for an AK.

The truly accurized AKs can be good shooters
RC20 is offline  
Old June 22, 2013, 09:48 PM   #21
Venom1956
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2008
Location: WI
Posts: 3,061
IO are not even on the same page as Arsenal.

Arsenal is probably the best non custom for the money. Then you get into the Krebs Custom territory.
__________________
E-Shock rounds are engineered to expend maximum energy into soft targets, turning the density mass into an expanding rotational cone of NyTrilium matrix particles, causing neurological collapse to the central nervous system.- Yeah I can do that.
I guarantee you will know it if a bicyclist hits your house going 1000 mph.
Venom1956 is offline  
Old June 23, 2013, 12:35 PM   #22
Aberration
Member
 
Join Date: July 14, 2012
Posts: 35
Quote:
I thought Arsenal more or less owned or controlled FIME group corporately.
http://www.fimegroup.com/About-Us/
http://www.arsenalinc.com/usa/help.p...us&mode=update
They are both in las vegas nevada. Plus FIME group is using the SGL designation on their rifles just like Arsenal was.
More or less? All I can get out of them is that FIME is now handling the Saiga imports, and they have their own staff to do the conversions.

If I buy a Saiga and convert it myself, its pretty much an Arsenal. Hell if you pick up a rifle and put on some camo you are pretty much Infantry?

I have never heard of screwed up sights on an Arsenal before. Which is why I got it, too many WASR horror stories. Only to end up with one that barely gets on paper at 100 yds.

I bought the same line from the dealer when I picked it up. "Pretty much the same as Arsenal". I wouldn't make the purchase again, and I don't advise anyone else does either.
Aberration is offline  
Old June 23, 2013, 01:43 PM   #23
JHansenAK47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2011
Posts: 185
Quote:
If I buy a Saiga and convert it myself, its pretty much an Arsenal.
The SGLs are in my opinion nothing more than higher end conversions. A lot the other conversions don't change out the handguards and don't change the frontsight/thread the muzzle. Besides the SGL series is more for people who want the rifle but don't want to do the conversion. I bought an Arsenal marked SGL21 and SGL31 because they were already converted.
Quote:
I have never heard of screwed up sights on an Arsenal before.
You should google the early SLR106 rifles. Mine is centered (almost perfectly center) but as I understand it mine was made after they figured out their sight machine was out of calibration and fixed it.
Quote:
All I can get out of them is that FIME is now handling the Saiga imports, and they have their own staff to do the conversions.
My arsenal marked SGL rifles look almost identical except for markings to the FIME group rifles. Same process at a different location perhaps. If it is indeed a different shop or just under new management (maybe retaining a hands off corporate control) I wouldn't be surprised if they had problems. What I would expect however is for them to streamline and for future production to have less problems.
Quote:
Which is why I got it, too many WASR horror stories.
WASR rifles are decent they just suffer from being economy rifles. The dollar has driven their production both to undercut the competition on price and make money on the same stroke.
__________________
Practical before tactical.
JHansenAK47 is offline  
Old June 23, 2013, 01:47 PM   #24
dvdcrr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2010
Posts: 249
I have owned close to 12 different and I prefer the Bulgarian Arsenals.
dvdcrr is offline  
Old June 23, 2013, 07:20 PM   #25
Willie D
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 24, 2007
Posts: 1,116
For clarity's sake: any Arsenals or Fime rifles marked "SGL" are converted Saigas, originally from Russia. It would be nice if people refered to these as Saiga rifles because that is what they are (with a few mods to make them USA legal once the get stateside).



The SLR, SAM, SAR, etc. are made by Arsenal Bulgaria. Again, Arsensal Nevada does some work when they get stateside but these are Bulgarian rifles, not Russian.
Willie D is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.14938 seconds with 7 queries