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Old June 9, 2013, 06:53 PM   #1
Chris1720
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M1 Carbine?????

Hello to all, this is my first post so please be gentle. Before it comes up, I have researched the threads and I have found several answers but none of the cases previously written were like mine. If everyone can give me their opinion, I would greatly appreciate it.

I know, you are all thinking, "Great, another M1 thread." LOL......

So, my father recently passed away. He was a former US Marine who served in Korean and Vietnam. He enlisted in the Marines in 1950. In 1962 be bought an M1 Carbine from the Government and he still has the original bill of sale for the rifle. I remember him telling me that there was a huge surplus of M1's for sale in those days so he picked one up. On the bill of sale, it even says he bought it for $10.......

Now that I inherited the rifle, I began looking at it. On the bill of sale, it clearly says "M1A Carbine" with the matching serial # that is on the rifle but as I look at the receiver, it is stamped with an "M," then a space where the 1 should be, then remains blank for several millimeters then where the receiver begins to round you see a very faint "2." The "2" is not like the deep "M" stamp either. It is a light, double lined "2". You almost cant make out the "2". So it shocked me because the bill of sale says "M1A." The rifle is an Inland Div, GM Carbine with a serial # of 6,69X,XXX. After researching, I know it was made between 01/1945-08/1945.

I took the rifle apart, and it does not have any of the features that an M2 have, sear, bar, housing pin, hammer, or that block with the sping on top of it that goes with the hammer.

So my question is what do you guys think? I read the threads where people say "Once a machine gun, always a machine gun." I also read where people said that just possessing it is a felony cause it has the "2" on it.

I'm sure most responses will be to call the BATF, I'm scared to do so. Not for criminal aspects, because I just came into ownership of this rifle but I'm more scared because my father bought it so long ago while he was still in the Marines. It is a great heirloom and would like to keep it in the family as a memory to my father. My father did not carry this weapong in Korea but he did carry an M2. Thats why he bought it because he loved the M2.

Ok, so time for opinions and comments. Is there a site that can check the serial # and see if it was made as an M1 then converted to an M2? But I read that the M1's that were converted were double stamped on top of each other.... I'm at a loss.

Thank you to all. I do appreciate the help....
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Old June 10, 2013, 04:35 PM   #2
RickB
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Is there a difference between an M1 receiver and M2 receiver (other than the stamp and serial number range)? Not that that answers your question, but is the difference between an M1 and M2 the absence of the selector and related parts only?
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Old June 10, 2013, 05:04 PM   #3
James K
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There is no difference between the M1 and M2 receivers except markings. There is no serial number range as the next paragraph shows.

When Inland was making both guns at the same time, they didn't know how many were going to be M1s and how many would be M2's, so they made up the roll stamp with the number blank and stamped it by hand when the gun was assembled.

Now the bad news is that a carbine stamped "M2", regardless of whether it has any selective fire parts, is a machinegun by law, and illegal to own if not registered before 1986.

So first, look around to see if there are registration papers, like a Form 4467, for registration during the 1968 amnesty. If not, you can contact BATFE and see if they have it registered. You might want to do that through an attorney, so if they don't they can't come after you. If the gun is not registered, you have only one legal option and that is to abandon (surrender) the receiver to BATFE or the police.

Some folks might suggest other options, but I will not do that here. Good luck.

Jim
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Old June 10, 2013, 05:14 PM   #4
RodTheWrench
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Delete this thread, enjoy your inheritance. My .02
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Old June 10, 2013, 06:20 PM   #5
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Agreed. Delete. I'd would never let my family guns go. I have a dozen guns from three wars that have been past down from family and they're going nowhere.

I didn't see a thing.

Boomer

Edit. I forget to add. My dad's M2 was stolen so keep it safe.
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Old June 10, 2013, 06:35 PM   #6
amd6547
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Interesting conundrum...the government sold it to his dad through the DCM...then later claims it is illegal...even though it is identical in every way to legal firearms still produced and legal today.
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Old June 10, 2013, 08:02 PM   #7
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Sorry, I failed to see the bit about the gun being an M1 on the DCM form. At that time DCM was a government agency (unlike CMP). So the government said, on paper, that the gun is an M1, and "The United States", a single legal entity, cannot contradict itself. An interesting legal question, but one I doubt anyone wants to test in court.

Jim
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Old June 10, 2013, 08:46 PM   #8
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My advice is to delete this thread, hang onto your DCM paperwork, enjoy your fathers's rifle for the rest of your life, then pass it to your children.
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Old June 10, 2013, 09:21 PM   #9
Art Eatman
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DCM sales were in accord with the 1934 Act about full-auto. Me, I wouldn't worry about it. It was sold as an M1 Carbine.
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Old June 10, 2013, 09:35 PM   #10
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It was the DCM sale of a number of carbines with barrels under 18" that caused the change in the law in 1968, just so the government would not be seen as having violated its own law.

Jim
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Old June 10, 2013, 09:55 PM   #11
4V50 Gary
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Don't worry about it. It was sold as the government as a M-1 and you have the original receipt to prove it. While there is no difference in the receiver, it has no M-2 parts (sear, disconnector, hammer, selector switch, selector switch spring, connector, or heavier bolt).
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Old June 11, 2013, 01:51 PM   #12
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Hi, Gary,

I am not sure how much effect the sales slip (or DCM records) would have, but BATFE has ruled that a carbine marked M2 or M11* is a machinegun, whether it has the M2 parts or not. This situation is tricky, and the only way to get a definitive ruling is a letter from BATFE or a court trial, either of which might be undesirable.

*The M11 or M1I marking was used by depots which converted M1 carbines in the Korean war period. They just stamped an extra "1" after the original, creating the Roman number "II". They also sometimes stamped a "2" over the "1". Per BATFE, either one makes the carbine a machinegun, and that designation cannot be undone.

Jim
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Old June 11, 2013, 02:05 PM   #13
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Quote:
space where the 1 should be, then remains blank for several millimeters then where the receiver begins to round you see a very faint "2."
It's so faint that it might just wear off from normal use? You might want to restamp the numeral on there, closer to the "M" where it should be, so there's no confusion about it.
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Old June 11, 2013, 02:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
It's so faint that it might just wear off from normal use?
I was thinking the same thing, but I'm glad you were the one to mention it.
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Old June 13, 2013, 08:31 PM   #15
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I suppose if the number did wear off something else might be stamped by mistake.....

Jim
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Old June 19, 2013, 07:13 AM   #16
Sea Buck
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My Standard Products M1 has an M2 "pot belly" stock, for an M2 Carbine. Does this make it a "Machine Gun". No! I'd forgeddaboutit and have fun with the rifle. If you can find the ammo! It will make a great hand me down to your grand kids.
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