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Old June 13, 2013, 05:15 PM   #1
Bake
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Just thinking out loud.

Home Defense/Tactical Defense is more "Mind Set" than cool hardware.

The cost of hardware should be of minor importants. How much is your wife's (replaceable), your childrens' (also replaceable) and your life (not replaceable) worth?

When selecting hardware you should start by decideing on how it will be deployed, not on how it looks. How much trainning you can do, and how & if you will you train. A look at the ranges you will be killing at will dicate which weapon you should train with. I heard story about a guy who defened his front door with a sword. After the cops arrived they found one guy laying in the street missing a hand, one guy laying on the front steps with his head half cut off, and the third guy is still running after a week. That Man had "MIND SET".

Decide on what the ranges will be and then choose the hardware, and train with it at those ranges. After you have decided what you will use, don't start "Second guessing yourself".

Appox. ranges:

0 yards to 20 yards: Handgun
15 yards to 35 yards: Shotgun
20 yards to 75 yards: Carbine
50 yards to 300 yards: Sporting rifle
250 yards to way out there: Spe. pur. rifle

Your mileage may vary...

When your family's and your life is on the line, don't even think about "What would happen if the bullet/pelet doesn't stop inside the house?" Deal with that later.
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Old June 13, 2013, 05:34 PM   #2
Virginian-in-LA
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Going to be rather hard to prove anything over 10 yards was self defense.
I used to sell guns and a lot of guys would want just a cheap handgun for their wife. I would try to talk them out of it, often to no avail. When you need a gun, you need one that works.
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Old June 13, 2013, 05:49 PM   #3
+1k ammo
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Well, after many years of marriage, I would agree with the WIFE as replaceable - just hope she doesn't read this. The kids, though, I disagree. In theory, yes, and before I had a few that was my notion, but after they grow up with you, they cannot be replaced.

But I agree, my handgun would be first and then backup with shotgun.
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Old June 13, 2013, 05:56 PM   #4
Bake
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A-Men to that.

Your legal defense for a shooting must start long before you "Go get your gun".
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Old June 13, 2013, 10:56 PM   #5
JimmyR
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I am going to try to be civil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bake
The cost of hardware should be of minor importants. How much is your wife's (replaceable), your childrens' (also replaceable) and your life (not replaceable) worth?
Mr. Bake, I am not sure what your experiences in life have been. I am fairly young (<30), but when I read your statement about a wife being replaceable boils my blood. I lost my first wife in an MVA after only 2 years of marriage. I have since gotten re-married, but to say that she is replaceable is an affront to any sense of decency I can muster. My wife's life is not replaceable. There's no coming back after losing a spouse. If she dies, she dies, same as if I die.
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Old June 13, 2013, 11:14 PM   #6
allaroundhunter
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Re: Just thinking out loud.

Bake, lives are not replaceable, not a single one.

Now for my ranges:
0-25 yards - pistol
0-25 yards - shotgun
0-25 yards - rifle


Do not only train to use your pistol out to 10 yards because then you can't make a longer shot if you need to. We rarely get to choose from a selection of guns depending on an assailants distance from us. We must be proficient with any of our defensive firearms at ALL defensive distances.
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Old June 14, 2013, 12:48 AM   #7
Bake
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Jimmy / Alaround,

The point that I was making, (even if your family is replaceable), when their lifes are on the line is not the time to be "Penny wise, pound foolish". Buy the best hardware you can afford, not some piece of junk "On Sale". Would you buy a Raven or a Walter to protect your wifes? Would you buy a $300 shotgun with $300 of added on junk, or would you look at a NIB $550 shotgun? To protect your families?

My choices:

I have 2 S&W Model 19 (6" barrels 1 of these have at least 5000 rds fired & the other has had at least 1500 rds.

I'm down to 1 Springfield 1911a1's I used when I shot USPSA, too many rds to count.

Have 1 Remington Wingmaster 12 ga. w/ 26" barrel I used to shoot skeet with. It also has a 18" and 30" barrels.

The 2 Italians, a Beretta (390 w/ 28" Barrel), one Benelli (M1 Super 90 w/ 20" barrel I used in 3 gun matches).

The Brownings (O/U,s, BT-99), the Thompson Centers (with all the barrels), SSG, and all the different 22's stay in the safe.

Last edited by Bake; June 14, 2013 at 12:57 AM.
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Old June 14, 2013, 01:19 AM   #8
JimmyR
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I understood the general point of your post. Personally, I think you can be frugal while being smart with your purchases. I personally would not buy a Kimber for home defense, because I don't see how the cost translates to function/reliability over a Taurus/Norinco/Remington. I also buy mostly used weapons, ensuring that I have quality pieces without the dealer sticker.

My wife has a S&W Model 19 next to the bed, and I generally have one of my carry pistols next to me, either a Makarov, PA 63, or CZ 75BD. All of my guns have quality SD ammo loaded in them, generally Hornady Critical Defense/Custom/Zombie loads.

That said, I guess our ideas on mindset are different. I feel my first goal is to defend my wife and family, even if I have to give up my life to do it. My wife and my family mean the world to me, and if my death can protect them, I hope I would have the courage to do so.
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Old June 14, 2013, 01:59 AM   #9
Bake
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Rules to surviving a gun fight.

1. Shoot and kill the bad guys.

2. Protect your family (see rule #1).

If you fail rule #1, rule #2 is moot.
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Old June 14, 2013, 02:23 AM   #10
JimmyR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bake
Rules to surviving a gun fight.

1. Shoot and kill the bad guys.

2. Protect your family (see rule #1).

If you fail rule #1, rule #2 is moot.

Oversimplified rules are very seldom as accurate or all-encompassing as they present themselves. Yours are, in my opinion, no different.

1) Your rules are backwards. If the way to protect your family is to flee, then that is the best option.

2) If presenting your weapon causes a BG to flee, then I have no reason to "shoot and kill the bad guys" but have protected my family.
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Old June 14, 2013, 02:26 AM   #11
JimmyR
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On a seperate note

Perhaps the mods can move this to the "Tactics and Training" sub-forum, since this seems to get away from the Shotgun theme of this sub-forum.
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Old June 14, 2013, 02:55 AM   #12
Bake
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you are right, this is just another internet "******* contest", and I don't see any reason to continue with it.
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Old June 14, 2013, 03:22 AM   #13
JimmyR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bake
you are right, this is just another internet "******* contest", and I don't see any reason to continue with it.
I think my tone came across as harsher than it needed to be. I also think one of my earlier statements is the big point of contention:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyR
That said, I guess our ideas on mindset are different.
We have different opinions on the best way to achieve our primary goal. Diff'rent strokes, both of us trying to get better.

Plus it's hard to get too many people involved in a discussion at 0400 EST/0100 PST
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Old June 14, 2013, 05:38 AM   #14
Virginian-in-LA
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If you have to shoot, much better to kill them. Only one witness - you - at any legal proceedings following.
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Old June 14, 2013, 05:42 AM   #15
Bake
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Twice I have been the last man standing, and both times I was the "Hero".
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Old June 14, 2013, 06:27 AM   #16
BigD_in_FL
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Quote:
Rules to surviving a gun fight.

1. Shoot and kill the bad guys.

2. Protect your family (see rule #1).

If you fail rule #1, rule #2 is moot.
Incorrect - rule number 1 is avoid gunfight at all costs


Quote:
If you have to shoot, much better to kill them. Only one witness - you - at any legal proceedings following.
Also incorrect - current Zimmerman case in FL is a perfect example
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Old June 14, 2013, 07:43 AM   #17
Skadoosh
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This thread went downhill from the first post.
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I think that one of the notions common to the anti-gunner is the idea that being a victim is 'noble'; as if it is better to be noble in your suffering than disruptive in your own defense.
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Old June 14, 2013, 08:10 AM   #18
hogdogs
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Went downhill as well as never being a shotgun specific thread so it is closed... Too faf gone to move...

Brent
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