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Old June 16, 2013, 05:21 PM   #51
JohnKSa
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If someone is trying to kill you- stab you multiple times, shoot you multiple times, bash your head in with a blunt object, rape and pillage your family and you are worried about hearing protection?
The answer to your question is no. No one is worried about hearing protection under those circumstances. Of course, that is irrelevant since no one is advocating that attempting to deploy hearing protection in a scenario like that would be reasonable.

No one is recommending that a defender should grab for hearing protection if an attack is actually underway or even if there's any chance that it could commence before one can put on the hearing protection.

The idea is that it makes sense to have good hearing protection in your "box of tools" so that if the circumstances warrant and time allows, you have the option of deploying it. An option which could offer a significant advantage in terms of improving hearing capabilities before and especially after a shot and which can help prevent hearing damage.

The reality of many home defense scenarios is that there is often preparation time. If that weren't true, people wouldn't be able to dial 911, access a stored firearm, etc. In those scenarios, adding hearing protection to the list of things to think about and use, if possible, makes sense.
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Old June 16, 2013, 08:00 PM   #52
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OK so you are worrying about hearing protection when you have some one breaking in to your house?? Really? I have shot indoors with out hearing protection and though not fun I really don't think I would care about that if some one was breaking into my house. If that happens you have fare more important things to worry about.
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Old June 16, 2013, 08:12 PM   #53
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Wear 'em if you want. Don't wear 'em if you don't want.
Seems like the "final answer" to me.

Personally, I "don't want". Others mileage may vary. No prob.


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Old June 17, 2013, 08:56 AM   #54
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Quote- Glenn E. Meyer There are ways to strengthen apartment doors. But many folks do live in houses.

If you don't, not my business.
Your standard(95%+ of door in the US) US door is at best a dead bolt going 3/4" to 1.5" into soft pine wood. Most 14yr old kids can kick it in without a sweat. A very large majority of break ins happen with a kick.

I don't know of any way to reenforce(so it would take more then 1 kick) a door like this with out doing hard modification to the door frame or the floor which most landlords would classify as "damage". Would like to hear of any if you got them. Many folks rent houses which have the same "damage" definitions by landlords.

Even when you have a solid door most homes have glass windows and or door which and not very hard to break. Cinder block through the back slider and step right in. Hope you got your... ear muffs.?

I know it is not your "business" but you are telling others only a "breech team" can get in their home in a timely manor which is very false and is creating and perpetuating false and dangerous info.

Last edited by Frank Ettin; June 17, 2013 at 10:11 AM. Reason: Deleted possibly antagonistic comment
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Old June 17, 2013, 09:06 AM   #55
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If you are trying to defend your life and possibly your family's lives, how will you find the time to get ear muffs on? I think you'll be lucky to get your gun. If you're worried about noise, choose a quieter weapon. Longer barrels are usually quieter and less powerful rounds should help too. It's still gonna be loud unless you're using a .22 or something else small. Regardless, I don't see how you'll find the time to get muffs on while trying to defend yourself. You're gonna be surprised, not the intruder. If you're fumbling around trying to get muffs on and they are already inside, you're time is limited to be already. Why waste valuable seconds. I'd rather deal with the noise and not risk it. Anything that slows down being prepared I believe is a bad idea.
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Old June 17, 2013, 10:03 AM   #56
.22lr
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I hope I type fast enough to get in before the lock.

If you an apartment dweller, talk to your landlord. Many are very open to "I'd like to make security improvements to your property. And since my safety is important to me, I will make these improvements at NO COST TO YOU."

I have never had this offer turned down.

Other than that, it seems like some are arguing that there will be no time; not whether or not hearing protection is a good idea.

I am seriously looking at getting a pair of electronic muffs that retain directional hearing. I think enhanced hearing and lack of hearing loss *sounds* great.

That said:
1) Decide if the bump in the night is worth checking on.
2) If 1 is "yes", retrieve gun.
3) Call for help (911)
4) hearing protection and other "nice to haves".

PS - Not making your home a unattactive / more difficult target is a terrible plan.
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Old June 17, 2013, 11:13 AM   #57
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Pros & Cons Of HD Shooting Using Ear Protection

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Originally Posted by deepcreek View Post
Your

I don't know of any way to reenforce(so it would take more then 1 kick) a door like this with out doing hard modification to the door frame or the floor which most landlords would classify as "damage". Would like to hear of any if you got them. Many folks rent houses which have the same "damage" definitions by landlords.

Even when you have a solid door most homes have glass windows and or door which and not very hard to break. Cinder block through the back slider and step right in. Hope you got your... ear muffs.?
.
Not to get too far off subject, but you can drill matching holes on hinge side of door & frame and glue metal pins in one side or other. When door is closed, pin enters opposing hole. Home stores also sell reinforcement plates for latch side.Also doors that open out rarely can be kicked in.
This thread HAS prompted me to keep a pair of electronic muffs near at night. Whether I would use them or not is a 50/50 chance though. At least they're there in opportunity permits.
I do have a perminnate ringing in my ears already. It's something I've kind of gotten used too.

Last edited by Garycw; June 17, 2013 at 12:42 PM.
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Old June 17, 2013, 12:25 PM   #58
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The lack of critical thinking in this thread is incredible. How many people have posted that the first thing you should be concerned with in a home invasion is hearing protection? Zero. How many people have said the first thing they would be reaching for is ear protection? Zero.

And yet we have multiple posts accusing people of that same mindset. If you have a problem with hearing protection being a PART of the set-up because of some tactical disadvantage they bring, that's fine. But if hearing protection can be a PART of the plan, circumstances allowing, then why not?
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Old June 17, 2013, 02:02 PM   #59
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I too doubt that anyone will have time to get prepared with hearing protection.
Funny how people continually think how anyone won't have time to get hearing protection, and yet we have had all sorts of threads involving incidents where people spend 3-30+ minutes on the phone with 911 while somebody is outside, how people heard noises downstairs and got guns from their safes or other hidden locations, that people heard somebody rummaging around at the other end of the house and so they fetched a gun from somewhere close and went to investigate, and that folks have waited at the top of the stairs for bad guys to appear. In ALL those instances, people had more than enough time to get hearing protection. In a couple, people had time to sneak out of the house, go to the neighbor's house, borrow hearing protection, and then sneak back in to their own home and wait for the bad guy.

Yeah, that is a bit of silliness, but it illustrates how much time people have had in some of the cases we have discussed on this forum where people had enough time to put on hearing protection. If you have time to "investigate a bump in the night" then you have time to put on hearing protection and electronic muffs really are the way to go. If you have time to call 911, you have time for hearing protection. If you have time to get out of bed and go lock the bedroom door, you have time for hearing protection. If you are, as noted above, waiting for the bad guy to come to you, you have time to put on hearing protection.

LOTS of home invasions do not happen fast or lots of encounters with the invaders do not happen fast. In those cases, you often have time not only for hearing protection, but to get dressed, call 911, etc. Not every home defense situation starts off with the homeowner awakening to being in a fight for his/her life.

Here are all stories where hearing protection could have been used, more than enough time. Some call 911. Some call their moms, husbands, etc. Some knew the invasion was occurring and watched it occur while arming themselves and looking out the windows...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsvggjYRbL0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp5gAY6aIjA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrL53-dE5Sc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-MvfDW8MOk (this woman's son is a deputy in the county or the next county).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYl6vrzza78
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS7LKwt1j18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt-u2VhL70c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0fcQ7gnjZw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mKHH22YNyc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQcoNr6ZIEc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1FLXLXCdgo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdA_5r_Gu-A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyq8Rlp_E9w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxbTII8B_Bk (This guy sounds pretty tough)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU6Z5ej5jcI

So this is just a sample of what is posted on Youtube, but illustrates how much time people often have during such events.
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Old June 17, 2013, 02:51 PM   #60
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Pros & Cons Of HD Shooting Using Ear Protection

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Originally Posted by MK11 View Post
The lack of critical thinking in this thread is incredible. How many people have posted that the first thing you should be concerned with in a home invasion is hearing protection? Zero. How many people have said the first thing they would be reaching for is ear protection? Zero.

And yet we have multiple posts accusing people of that same mindset. If you have a problem with hearing protection being a PART of the set-up because of some tactical disadvantage they bring, that's fine. But if hearing protection can be a PART of the plan, circumstances allowing, then why not?
Well said
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Old June 17, 2013, 03:01 PM   #61
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How about if those of you that want to wear ears, wear them. And those that don't want to, don't.

How about NOT suggesting someone is incapable of critical thinking. Or doesn't care if they ever hear their grandkids again.

Differing opinions. Imagine that.


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Old June 17, 2013, 03:24 PM   #62
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Double Naught Spy
The sixth video you posted is chilling that the guy had already been accused of kidnapping another girl. Not shocking!

I do have electronic hearing protection hanging on my shotgun butt, I store it muzzle down and have to take them off the gun before I can pick it up.
To each his own on this one but since it amplifies my hearing I think it is well worth the 1/2 of a second at most it takes to put them on.
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Old June 17, 2013, 03:35 PM   #63
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People do what they want but the thought of worrying about putting on ear defenders when someone is coming up the stairs to me would be a distraction. I am sure that some on this forum would be cool and collected I such circumstances but I think concentrating on the threat would make more sense. Why stop there put on shooting glasses and a bullet proof vest.
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Old June 17, 2013, 04:03 PM   #64
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Double Naught Spy wrote:
Quote:
Not every home defense situation starts off with the homeowner awakening to being in a fight for his/her life.
But I will bet with a fair amount of certainly that most homeowners arent standing around waiting for things to develop for them to think, "Hey!...I better go get my electronic ear protection so I can protect my hearing!" as the burglar/home invader works at making a noisy entry into their residence...
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Old June 17, 2013, 04:24 PM   #65
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But I will bet with a fair amount of certainly that most homeowners arent standing around waiting for things to develop for them to think, "Hey!...I better go get my electronic ear protection so I can protect my hearing!" as the burglar/home invader works at making a noisy entry into their residence...
Nope, because they didn't bother to prepare or they are of the mindset of so many people here that they thought they would never have the chance or the need for such protection. I have a small kit of goodies next to the bed including electronic muffs, shooting glasses, bottled water, knife, and spare batteries.

If your preparation only involves a gun, then likely the only tools you will have at your immediate disposal is a gun. Funny how that works.
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Old June 17, 2013, 04:27 PM   #66
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But I will bet with a fair amount of certainly that most homeowners arent standing around waiting for things to develop for them to think, "Hey!...I better go get my electronic ear protection so I can protect my hearing!" as the burglar/home invader works at making a noisy entry into their residence...
This is probably true, but it would likely be because "most homeowners" have never made plans, trained, or practiced for such a thing. For those who have (which should include most/all of us here), how is this relevant to whether it's a good idea to include hearing protection as part of those plans? Note that I wrote "plans," plural, here -- I'd like to think that we all take into account the fact that unwelcome intrusions take many forms.

To use an extreme example, someone whose "plan" is to blaze away at any intruder as fast as possible hasn't taken into account that the intruder might be the kid next door. One of the basics of home defense is to come with a flexible set of plans; as far as possible, they should include maximizing the amount of time one has to assess the situation.

That may not mean much in some situations, but it may just as easily prevent a tragedy as allow a second or so to put on hearing protection. This is what planning and training are for: to allow you to make the best possible response in a given situation. Why assume that that the best possible response will never include giving yourself a tactical advantage such as that offered by a good set of electronic muffs, and, incidentally, protecting your hearing?
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Last edited by Vanya; June 17, 2013 at 07:00 PM. Reason: excess of words.
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Old June 17, 2013, 04:36 PM   #67
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Posted by Vanya: To use an extreme example, someone whose "plan" is to blaze away at any intruder as fast as possible hasn't taken into account that the intruder might be the kid next door.
Even if the defender has properly identified the first target, severe impairment of hearing ability in a shooting situation could help lead to shooting the wrong person next, in the heat of the moment.

Much, much better to be able to hear what others are saying.
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Old June 17, 2013, 04:56 PM   #68
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An excellent point...
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Old June 17, 2013, 05:03 PM   #69
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And another in the pro hearing protection side of things.

A critical situation extends beyond the hypothetical shooting into the aftermath. Your ablity and competancy dealing with first responders and LE is also crucial to your future and wellbeing.
Being able to communicate with them is a good thing. Communicating via mime probably isn't in your best intrest.
No point in saving your tush from an attacker, only to end up in jail because of a miscommunication with the responding officer.
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Old June 17, 2013, 05:05 PM   #70
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The question seems to be:
"If you could, would you wear hearing protection in a home defense situation?"

With the electronic hearing protection available, why not gain the option of protection / enhanced hearing?

Quote:
Why stop there put on shooting glasses and a bullet proof vest.
Why wouldn't you if you had the time? Is anyone advocating not taking every advantage? Though, if i could spare the money for a vest, I might put it on first as I value my squishy internal bits more than my hearing.

Last edited by .22lr; June 17, 2013 at 05:06 PM. Reason: afterthough
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Old June 17, 2013, 05:09 PM   #71
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No point in saving your tush from an attacker, only to end up in jail because of a miscommunication with the responding officer.
Or worse. Its not unthinkable that missing the command to "drop the gun" might be frowened upon by responding police who are unsure of who you are.
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Old June 17, 2013, 05:09 PM   #72
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You can have the option of sticking a cell phone between your ear and one amplified muff {while possibly having 911 on the line} --- while the other muff on your opposite ear --- is helping you listen for bad guys.
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Old June 17, 2013, 05:29 PM   #73
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You can have the option of sticking a cell phone between your ear and one amplified muff {while possibly having 911 on the line} --- while the other muff on your opposite ear --- is helping you listen for bad guys.
If the speaker is turned on, you won't need to do that. That's sort of the point of the electronic muffs: they can amplify sounds at "normal" intensities while filtering sounds would damage your ears.
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Old June 17, 2013, 06:50 PM   #74
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Pros & Cons Of HD Shooting Using Ear Protection

Just wondering if LEO's / swat etc typically wear hearing protection on routine patrol, sweeping buildings for burglars,raid entries and attempted apprehensions where gun fire may be anticipated?
Like I said before I really Never thought about it before, but now in light of this discussion I'm going to try and keep some handy and use if the situation permits.
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Old June 17, 2013, 07:32 PM   #75
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Earmuffs are a personal decision, I can see both sides and keep a pair at my bedside.

On the other hand, choice of ammo and caliber is something you can definitely arrange ahead of time. Big, slow bullets (as in .45ACP or .44 special) will be easier on your ears (not easy, but easier) and also get the job done. You will definitely NOT catch me using a .357 for HD, too devastating on the ears when there are better alternatives available.
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