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Old June 14, 2013, 04:22 PM   #26
SgtLumpy
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Quote:
I will be laying low and have the turkey come to me.
Not exactly a jury winning line...


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Old June 14, 2013, 04:28 PM   #27
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The idea as taught in most civilian courses is that:

1. You portray yourself as the defender if they come to you. That will look better in court than wandering around outside.

2. Defense is a stronger position than offense for the civilian. We aren't military squads. I've seen in FOF that the newbies who go exploring are usually killed.
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Old June 14, 2013, 04:29 PM   #28
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Ear protection on the range yes. In the unlikely event of having to use your firearm for self defence the last thing you will be concerned or worry about is ear protection. The thought of fumbling around for ear protection in a self defence situation is ridiculous in my opinion.
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Old June 14, 2013, 04:35 PM   #29
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Quote:
The idea as taught in most civilian courses is that:

1. You portray yourself as the defender if they come to you. That will look better in court than wandering around outside.
I would suggest that:

"I heard a sound and was scared. So I hid with my gun in case I needed it as an absolute last resort, in case it was someone bent on killing me. In the mean time I dialed 911"

is a much more jury friendly line than -

"I will be laying low and have the turkey come to me. "


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Old June 15, 2013, 08:07 PM   #30
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Amazed at the amount of people who don't care about there hearing. It doesn't take to many shots to Permanantly destroy your hearing. Good you lived the altercation, but now you have a horrid quality of life. Cant hear your children or grand children laugh or talk, cant hear movies or tv or radio. Cant hear your wife, or even talk to the rest of humanity. Yep that's awesome...
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Old June 15, 2013, 11:05 PM   #31
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Pros & Cons Of HD Shooting Using Ear Protection

Quote:
Originally Posted by mordis View Post
Amazed at the amount of people who don't care about there hearing. It doesn't take to many shots to Permanantly destroy your hearing. Good you lived the altercation, but now you have a horrid quality of life. Cant hear your children or grand children laugh or talk, cant hear movies or tv or radio. Cant hear your wife, or even talk to the rest of humanity. Yep that's awesome...
I'm sure everyone cares about there hearing, you can't walk around town with amplified ear muffs on, are you going to have them in every room in the house?i guess in a perfect scenario laying on your nightstand you could wake up alert,get them on correctly, turn them on to desired level, get your gun, , may have a safety?, flashlight? Slippers? Everyone SHOULD wear hearing protection when shooting, if you know your going to be shooting, range, hunting etc..in a emergency situation you may need to react fast. If your dead you won't have to worry about a little ringing in the ears that may or may not go away. A rock concert or NASCAR race over time will have similar results. Occasional and repetitive make a big difference unless your talking about mortars or dynamite. I've know people that have 75% hearing loss but occurred over a 20-25+ years of shooting w/o protection.
Bottom line..Always absolutely positively Wear it, use it whenever possible

Last edited by Garycw; June 16, 2013 at 01:07 PM.
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Old June 16, 2013, 12:49 AM   #32
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I have the following items within reach of my nightstand gun. A phone, a pair of prescription safety glasses, a flashlight, a spare magazine and electronic hearing protection.

I've tested all the items to insure that they work, to determine how they will work, how they will affect me (if applicable) and have practiced with them enough to be able to deploy any of them in a reasonably competent manner.

They are, essentially, a box of tools that are available for my use should the need for any or all of them arise. Having them close at hand doesn't obligate me to use all of them, or even any of them. Depending on the circumstances of the situation (time constraints, lighting, and any number of other variables), some might get used and some might not.

Good quality electronic hearing protection will not only protect your hearing, it generally has the capability to enhance it and does not affect the normal ability to locate sounds.

I was unfortunate enough to experience a gunshot without hearing protection indoors. In my case it was a single shot from a handgun. It resulted in nearly total hearing impairment (deafness) for perhaps a 30 seconds to a minute. After that, I was able to hear loud noises (shouting) and then, after 15-20 minutes I was able to converse in normal tones. I still have significant and noticeable hearing loss in my left ear years later.

I don't know if I will have the time or presence of mind to deploy my hearing protection in an emergency, but I have at least given myself the option of doing so.
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Old June 16, 2013, 01:02 AM   #33
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Donning hearing protection suggests a certain degree of premeditation which I could see possibly garnering the defender extra suspicion, particularly if other aspect of the incident were questionable or unusual. Admittedly though, this would probably be less of an issue in states with Castle Doctrine laws.
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Old June 16, 2013, 04:52 AM   #34
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Good thread

Back when I first started acquiring firearms as a hobbie... each gun I would buy I'd say to myself and others "Yup, the first shot I take from each new gun I buy will be out doors and without any hearing protection, just so I can see how it sounds in real life and compares to the others."
After taking my first shot from my .38 special I became a bit skeptical of my plan. Then when I took the first shot from my new .45 acp I decided that despite my meaningful intentions, the plan was seriously flawed. Heck, even a .22lr revolver will give a good ping to your ears. I'm just glad I decided to give up on that before I bought my .44 mag

I've fired a .22 rifle or semi auto handgun indoors a couple times with no hearing protection, and while it is hard on the ears, I could see doing it if I needed too. At this point the only way I'm willing to shoot a fire arm without hearing protection is if it's a .22 rifle outdoors, or maybe a .22 short or smaller in a revolver outdoors.

With the experience I've had, I'm scared to even carry a revolver for personal defense. If I were to carry a revolver (which I have) I'll be damned if I carry anything more than a standard .38 special. I don't want some +P or .357 blasting out my hearing to a point of no return when I could get away with a 9mm, especially when thinking about shooting indoors.

Ultimately this has caused me to become very curious about the idea of a suppressed 9mm for a HD gun. Aside from a shot gun (which will still be very loud) Can you do much better than a 9mm glock with a mounted flashlight, 33rnd magazine, night sights, suppressor, and subsonic HP ammo for a HD gun?

Could having a suppressor on a HD gun for the sake of saving the hearing of yourself, your family, and even the attacker really cause you legal problems if you were forced to shoot?
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Old June 16, 2013, 06:37 AM   #35
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Quote:
Amazed at the amount of people who don't care about there hearing. It doesn't take to many shots to Permanantly destroy your hearing. Good you lived the altercation, but now you have a horrid quality of life. Cant hear your children or grand children laugh or talk, cant hear movies or tv or radio. Cant hear your wife, or even talk to the rest of humanity. Yep that's awesome
I do not think people don't care about their hearing I would never shoot a firearm without hearing protection unless I had no choice. I think the chance of someone looking to harm you in your house is small but if it happens the less things to distract you form protecting yourself the better, putting in ear protecting for example could be a distraction from what you should be concentrating. on.
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Old June 16, 2013, 07:03 AM   #36
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I have a hard believing anyone here will actually put on hearing protection in a home defense situation.
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Old June 16, 2013, 09:08 AM   #37
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Can you do much better than a 9mm glock with a mounted flashlight, 33rnd magazine, night sights, suppressor, and subsonic HP ammo for a HD gun?
Yes.


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Old June 16, 2013, 09:44 AM   #38
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Quote:
Amazed at the amount of people who don't care about there hearing. It doesn't take to many shots to Permanantly destroy your hearing. Good you lived the altercation, but now you have a horrid quality of life. Cant hear your children or grand children laugh or talk, cant hear movies or tv or radio. Cant hear your wife, or even talk to the rest of humanity. Yep that's awesome
We are talking about a life or death situation. If someone is trying to kill you- stab you multiple times, shoot you multiple times, bash your head in with a blunt object, rape and pillage your family and you are worried about hearing protection?

I think all of us care about hearing. For a life or death and life altering event mild ear damage is not on the top of my concerns, survival and avoiding permanent damage is, which a few rds with no ear protection will probably not cause permanent ear damage.
Just like shooting an elk with no ear muffs will probably not cause permanent ear damage for most hunters.

I have probably shoot a couple hundred rds with no protection and my hearing is fine, actually too good for the city. Some rds where when I was young and stupid and some are from hunting.
Gun shots don't make you go automatically deaf, it usually takes years of abuse.
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Old June 16, 2013, 09:56 AM   #39
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I dont remember hearing any shots I have taken in hunting situations and have never had "ringing" in my ears after the shot.

At the range I have had shooting next to me prior to me getting my ears protected and that did result in "ringing" in my ears for a little while.

My point is this, in a stressful situation such as home defense, your adrenaline will be pumping so much you wont notice the shots
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Old June 16, 2013, 10:45 AM   #40
Glenn E. Meyer
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OK - we are going into the debate where someone says - well, I shot a lot and didn't get hearing problems.

The science says that statement is worthless as a generality or argument against using hearing protection. Cease and desist that.

We are also getting some wild-eyed zombie appearing over your bed to stab and maim you.

If that happens then you are surely a poor defensive planner for your domicile. That's your problem.

If you are at home - unless you are faced with a breaching team - a properly thought out house should give you enough time to retrieve a gun, light, muffs and maybe call the law.

We are close to close.
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Last edited by Glenn E. Meyer; June 16, 2013 at 11:20 AM.
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Old June 16, 2013, 10:45 AM   #41
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Griz,

I've accidently shot my SKS and multiple .22s without hearing protection.
Yes, I forgot my muffs and then sat there wondering why the heck things were so loud. I actually thought something was wrong with the SKS. The SKS was a bit harsh. The .22s don't bother me at all, which is bad because it's still loud enough to cause damage over time, and apparently, I need reminders to put my muffs on.

Yet, two shots off a revolver with .38 special +p and I was deaf as a post for about 20 minutes. Don't ask me to explain, but how sound waves eminate from diffrent guns changes what you hear and how. Revolvers are the worst. There's nothing between you and the sound.
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Old June 16, 2013, 11:04 AM   #42
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If it was a 2 1/2 inch revolver it was because the sound was closer. Most short barrel rifles and pistols sound loader.

I too doubt that anyone will have time to get prepared with hearing protection. You could just buy a pair of those rubber shooting plugs that go into the ear and have a valve that shuts when a loud sound goes off. They let you hear normally under most conditions and shut off incoming sound when you fire.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/690...s-nrr-19db-tan

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/453...vc=subv1690766

Or you could just get a Class 3 sound suppressor and not wake up your neighbors, now that would be considerate.

Jim
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Last edited by Jim243; June 16, 2013 at 11:10 AM.
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Old June 16, 2013, 11:14 AM   #43
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Quote:
Quote -Glenn E. Meyer -If you are at home - unless you are faced with a breeching team - a properly thought out house should give you enough time to retrieve a gun, light, muffs and maybe call the law.
You think only a "breaching team" can be in your home in a hurry?

Most common doors take 1 solid kick to open. and many home invasion guys have a pretty good pattern down.

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Old June 16, 2013, 11:19 AM   #44
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Don't have a common door. It's that simple. Move into a new house or an old one and get folks to fix up your doors.

The statement if you have a 'common door' proves my point.
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Old June 16, 2013, 11:29 AM   #45
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Don't have a common door. It's that simple. Move into a new house or an old one and get folks to fix up your doors.

The statement if you have a 'common door' proves my point.
Many of us are renters or in situations where we cannot install a beefed up door so we have a "common door" just like the majority of America so we make do. You are talking about special doors maybe your tactics work for special people but many of us like to train for common scenarios because we are common people in common homes.

The only point you are proving is you are detached from the reality that most of us live in.
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Old June 16, 2013, 11:52 AM   #46
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There are ways to strengthen apartment doors. But many folks do live in houses.

If you don't, not my business.

It is clear that gun shot noise can be dangerous to your hearing, despite denials of such. It is not clear that the reality we live in means that you face an rapid break-in as compared to hearing something in the night, most of the time.

Even in an apartment, you can lock the bedroom door and make it harder to breach - unless you face a team.

If you do face an organized home invasion as you fear - you probably don't have time to get your gun either. You will be overwhelmed and stabbed multiple times.
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Old June 16, 2013, 11:57 AM   #47
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I switch out my magnum rounds for much quieter .38s at night, I'm willing to trade the extra power of the .357s for the chance of less hearing damage on the gamble that an intruder isn't going to be wearing armor and I'm not gonna have to shoot through media.

I'm more comfortable with a handgun than a shotgun for HD, even my pistol-gripped light-equipped Mossberg Persuader is a bit clumsy indoors compared to having a pistol in one hand and flashlight in the other.

So for me, the only step I take to avoid hearing damage is to load with lighter rounds. At the ranges I will encounter inside my house I'm willing, literally, to bet my life on that.

Ivan
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Old June 16, 2013, 12:03 PM   #48
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357s won't make it through standard armor. If an average person faces home invaders in body armor - you are probably not going to carry the day unless you can get to a long arm.

How many times does this happen?
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Old June 16, 2013, 12:12 PM   #49
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Setting aside the important issue of permanent noise-induced hearing loss for just a moment, there is the critical risk of having substantially impaired hearing immediately after having fired shots inside one's house.

The ability to hear the assailant's accomplices, one's family members, and/or arriving first responders could make a lot of difference in the outcome and the aftermath.

Not having hearing protection and using unnecessarily powerful firearms are things that one can and should try to avoid.
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Old June 16, 2013, 01:28 PM   #50
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Pros & Cons Of HD Shooting Using Ear Protection

My wife has 90-95% hearing loss. NO not from shooting! It was from neglected childhood hearing infections. After numerous failed ear surgery she's left with no ear drum on one side and only 5-10% hearing in the other. She hears fairly well with her most powerful hearing aid, plus she can read lips from 100ft. If a firearm of any type was shot near her with aid in, I'm sure it would end her hearing all together. WiITHOUT her aid in, a 45 would sound like opening a can of pop. I would be afraid it would still cause further damage though. She's wanting to learn to shoot incase of an emergency so I did get her some good electronic muffs, but she hasn't shot yet. She does have a 38spl. This still makes me nervous. If she did ever have to use gun in defense , it truly would be life or death situation without hearing protection.
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