The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: General Handgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 11, 2013, 02:42 AM   #1
dakota.potts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 25, 2013
Location: Saint Augustine, Florida
Posts: 1,128
Small of back holster for my dad

We took my dad to look at some 1911's for Father's day and overall made the decision against them. He told my mom that instead he'd like a nice pair of boots and a back holster for his handgun.

He has a Sig Sauer 250 Compact that he will carry as soon as he gets his CCP (Appointments were booked 3 months out )

My mom found a Pro Carry 250 Compact Small of Back Holster on Amazon. It was $35. The price tag made me a little wary because I know poorly made holsters are not a good thing to carry daily. I told her I'd run a check. What do you guys think?
dakota.potts is offline  
Old June 11, 2013, 03:21 AM   #2
JimmyR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 4, 2012
Posts: 1,012
Personally, I would avoid a small of back (SOB) holster. I have considered them myself at various times, but after doing some research and looking for reccomendations, have found no real reason take the leap.

Main reasons I have seen to avoid SOB holsters are:

1) Distance away from potential target- you have officially placed your weapon as far as possible away from any target you face.

2) Difficult/Impossible to draw quickly without covering people in a 90-130 degree arc from your target.

3) Risk of injury if you fall on your back, increasingly risk of back/spine injury.

4) Often uncomfortable to carry, especially when sitting.
JimmyR is offline  
Old June 11, 2013, 04:24 AM   #3
dakota.potts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 25, 2013
Location: Saint Augustine, Florida
Posts: 1,128
I would not have recommended it for my style of carry and did discuss that with him but I'm not going to tell an adult who brought me up safely that their chosen method of self defense is wrong. At this point I just want to help find one that's going to be the most comfortable, made well, and offers very good trigger protection.
dakota.potts is offline  
Old June 11, 2013, 05:01 AM   #4
Brit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2005
Location: Orlando FL
Posts: 850
Dakota,

At 77 YOA I am most likely older than your Dad! He might listen to me, more than you?

The movies caused this fad, the small of the back holster, any fall or blow to this area of your body, whilst carrying this way, can cause very bad injuries.

No good at all for rapid deployment of pistol when sitting. Uncomfortable.

I have found the best general position for deployment/comfort/conceivability, to be just behind the strong side hip bone. There are many belt holsters on the market, I use a very low priced model, the Glock Sport/combat holster, for my Glock 19, weighs nothing, is low priced.

Not familiar with your pistol, keep safe.
Brit is offline  
Old June 11, 2013, 05:41 AM   #5
dayman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2011
Location: The Woods
Posts: 1,071
I carry SOB and find it works extremely well. I don't use one of the purpose built SOB holsters, but rather have a hybrid IWB rig with the cant adjusted for a smooth draw.
I've never felt that any of the complaints really hold water.

Back Injury: First, how often do you fall onto your back? On the rare occasion I do fall I generally wind up falling forward. Second, I wear my gun more like 5:00, so it's not right over my spine anyway. If I ever get tackled onto my back in an SD situation, a bruised love handle will be pretty low on my list of worries.

Flagging people/long draw: You could flag people if you wanted, but I find my gun is pointed down for the bulk of my draw.You're only talking a few more inches of travel than the typical "behind the hip" holster placement.
Also, regarding the length of the draw, while it may be longer it also looks/feels a lot like reaching for a wallet. For me, it's a very smooth movement - and you know what they say about smoothness in relation to speed. I can still get my gun out and shoot in about 2 seconds (generally about .6 seconds slower than from the hip). It might not be the best spot if you're going to be dueling someone at high noon, but the sacrifice in speed is over blown.

Uncomfortable: Depends entirely on the gun. My XDS I barely notice is there. It definitely isn't a great carry position for long car trips, but - at least with me - there's a natural hollow for the gun to sit in. My shoulders rest on the back of the seat, but my lower back, not so much. I rarely have a problem. Bigger guns do get uncomfortable in the car, but it's easy enough to take them out and put them in the glove box.

Re-holstering: I've never had a great deal of difficulty, but I admittedly don't see it as that huge of a deal anyway. Should I ever need my gun it's going to stay in my hand until I'm 100% sure I don't need it. And then I'll either have time to re-holster (threat gone), or put it on the ground (cops arrive).

Then there's the upside. It's extremely easy to hide a gun behind your back without printing. Your body makes a natural pocket of extra shirt there, and you can carry a surprisingly large gun under even an untucked t-shirt without drawing any notice - particularly if your shoulders are bigger than your waste. You don't have to wear clothes a size too big, or one of those "look at me, I have a gun" photographers vests.
Through most of the summer I wear an untucked, but appropriately sized button down shirt, and even a G19 sized gun is invisible unless I bend over sharply.

So my advise is if he likes SOB go for it.

Of course you may not want to listen to my advise - I've also been known to wear a shoulder rig, so clearly I have no regard for safety
__________________
si vis pacem para bellum
dayman is offline  
Old June 11, 2013, 05:54 AM   #6
Beentown71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 1, 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 1,493
Re: Small of back holster for my dad

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyR View Post
Personally, I would avoid a small of back (SOB) holster. I have considered them myself at various times, but after doing some research and looking for reccomendations, have found no real reason take the leap.

Main reasons I have seen to avoid SOB holsters are:

1) Distance away from potential target- you have officially placed your weapon as far as possible away from any target you face.

2) Difficult/Impossible to draw quickly without covering people in a 90-130 degree arc from your target.

3) Risk of injury if you fall on your back, increasingly risk of back/spine injury.

4) Often uncomfortable to carry, especially when sitting.
Agreed. Maybe if you Father were to read what others have said then he might be more open to more effective/safe ways to carry. I say that but then my Father will not carry anything but in a shoulder rig.

Good luck in the holster search. I am more of the buy once, cry once type when it comes to holsters.
Beentown71 is offline  
Old June 11, 2013, 08:04 AM   #7
rodfac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 22, 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 1,517
I don't like a SOB holster for all of the above mentioned reasons...I've tried several for a day at a time, borrowing from friends who also gave up on them.
For concealment purposes, all of us have gone to a 4 o'clock position (the old FBI carry), just behind the right (or strong hand) hip. It works well, does not hinder a good presentation, and is almost as concealable as the SOB carry.

Pic attached showing a S&W M36 with a three inch bbl. in a Tom Threepersons type in the "FBI" position. El Paso Saddlery carries several models of this type holster; all to be recommended, and worth the cost.

HTH's Rod

__________________
Our Flag does not fly because the wind blows against it, it is moved instead, by the dying breath of our patriots in uniform. Our Freedom is not free, it's been paid for many times over.
USAF Forward Air Controller, 5th Spl Forces,
An Loc, lll Corps, RVN, 69-70, Vietnam Vet '69-'73
rodfac is offline  
Old June 11, 2013, 01:27 PM   #8
James K
Staff
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 19,338
TV and the movies started the small-of-back fad because it explains how some chick with few clothes can be carrying a gun. (In fact, the prop guy gives her the gun before the scene, so she doesn't really carry anything.)

The SOB carry is not bad with some clothing, like a loose jacket, but the main problem for someone to whom concealment is important is that if he bends over, he looks like the "humpty back camel" in the old song.

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old June 11, 2013, 02:11 PM   #9
AirCool65
Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 95
I tried carrying in the small of the back position...it got really old, really fast. I tried it while driving a couple of different cars and trucks and was never comfortable in any of them.
AirCool65 is offline  
Old June 11, 2013, 03:00 PM   #10
OkieCruffler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 9, 2001
Location: Denison Texas on the banks of Texhoma
Posts: 1,485
I'm a fan of the Ross M6 SOB holster. Carried a full sized 1911 for several years that way. But it is abit more pricey.
__________________
John A. Monroe, Never Forgive, Never Forget, Blood Pays Blood
OkieCruffler is offline  
Old June 11, 2013, 05:30 PM   #11
ClydeFrog
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2010
Posts: 5,798
MoB or SoB....

Smart gunners & armed professionals(cops PIs EP agents etc) avoid small of back & "middle of back" holsters.
If you are pushed or fall back on your firearm you can cause serious damage to your lower back/spine.
That's not fun.

That's also why cops & security officers avoid wearing handcuffs or items directly on the spine area.

Workers comp is one thing but wheelchairs are not the way to end your career.
ClydeFrog is offline  
Old June 12, 2013, 10:07 AM   #12
dyl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 31, 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 509
Clydefrog beat me to it, ever got pushed onto your back? For me it's been a while and I'm a bit heavier now. It would only hurt worse. Since then the only time I've fallen on my back has been when slipping on ice or a steep slope.

I spoke to a man in a pain management clinic (therapy, scans, rods, meds) who hurt his lower back while inner tubing down a shallow river. He slipped off his inner tube and his back hit a rock at the bottom. The pain will be with him the test of his life. He can't do what he used to. I thought, "man what are the odds that the rock hit dead center on his spine? On vacation too" Just a couple inches over and I think it would have been different.

That being said if he must try for novelty there are the hybrid IWB holsters. I have a Theiss holster (also see Crossbreed, Old faithful, comp-tac, desantis king tuck) which is really made for 4:30 and farther to the rear rather than a3:00 strong side. Looking at the design, the widely placed clips and wide slab of leather really distributes weight out well but the width would also rub your leg if you wear 3:00 when you bring your knee up as you walk or sit. I can slide it over as much as I want - even to 6:00 if I wanted to and I'm sure it would feel great as I walk but I find that 5:00 or 4:30 accomplish the same without placing the slide against my spine. The body has a natural curve/hollow anywhere above the rear end so it conceals just as well - in my opinion. If your dad hasn't tried carrying this way I think he should give it a go at some point. This style of carry is versatile and a adjustable - you can set the overall height of the gun and set the cant/tilt by adjusting the clip height. Gun stuff for Father's Day? What a great family
dyl is offline  
Old June 12, 2013, 10:30 AM   #13
dayman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2011
Location: The Woods
Posts: 1,071
Does "small of back" mean "over spine"?
I've always considered it to mean fully behind the hip - lets say 4:30-7:30. You can wear your gun pretty far back without actually placing it over your spine. The upside to holsters marketed for SOB carry is that they're canted further forward to allow a smoother draw.
You can also get a holster with adjustable cant and see where works best.
__________________
si vis pacem para bellum
dayman is offline  
Old June 12, 2013, 11:10 AM   #14
dalegribble
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 4, 2007
Posts: 861
I don't like sob simply because I feel a lack of control of the gun. it is further away. it takes longer to draw. it is more accessable to the BG coming from behind or if you are knocked down.
__________________
Waltzes with woofs
dalegribble is offline  
Old June 12, 2013, 11:11 AM   #15
ClydeFrog
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2010
Posts: 5,798
The "small" or "middle" of the human back...

I'm no MD or chiropractor but to me, the small of the back is the area above your waist or tailbone where the spine begins to curve. Not on the sides or hips.

FWIW, Blackhawk, www.Blackhawk.com sells a line of decent black leather holsters angled to fit in the rear hip area. The description states it allows the wearer to access the sidearm & avoid problems with a long gun or SMG.
ClydeFrog is offline  
Old June 12, 2013, 11:22 AM   #16
James K
Staff
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 19,338
IMHO, the very best strong side holster ever made was the Bucheimer Federal Man, about the only really usable thumb break I have seen. Unfortunately, the company is gone and the holster no longer made. I wish someone would take over the design and resume production.

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old June 12, 2013, 11:23 AM   #17
psyfly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 27, 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 777
You might try a left-handed IWB holster.

When worn on the right side (between 4:00 and 5:00 positions) it presents like the tried and true "Mexican carry" but, with safety.

It's also 1.) comfortable and 2.) might qualify in your father's eyes as a "back" holster.

Otherwise, there are several mfrs out there making really nice leather SOB holsters for $100 to $ 200 which might be of better quality than the one you reference.

I agree with the sentiment expressed above that youd dad is not likely to want either a lecture or a lesson for Father's day.

JamesK, I, for one, would like to see a pic of the Bucheimer.

Best,

Will
__________________
Show me the data
psyfly is offline  
Old June 12, 2013, 03:38 PM   #18
TailGator
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 8, 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,981
A drawback of SOB carry that has not been mentioned is that it is very easy for the carry garment to ride up and uncover the handgun with the owner remaining oblivious.

I don't see anything particularly wrong with that holster on Amazon, but from reading the ad I can't tell what brand it is so it is hard to endorse it.

The one I am looking at doesn't say that it is designed for SOB, either. There are some that are if you and your dad are absolutely sure that SOB is for him.
TailGator is offline  
Old June 12, 2013, 08:48 PM   #19
dakota.potts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 25, 2013
Location: Saint Augustine, Florida
Posts: 1,128
Turns out my mom went ahead and ordered one anyways because of Amazon's good return policies. She also ordered another, I think a standard IWB, for him to try so he can make the final decision. Hopefully they'll be here tomorrow.
dakota.potts is offline  
Old June 12, 2013, 11:14 PM   #20
OkieCruffler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 9, 2001
Location: Denison Texas on the banks of Texhoma
Posts: 1,485
I'd like to hear a report on how it works out for him.
__________________
John A. Monroe, Never Forgive, Never Forget, Blood Pays Blood
OkieCruffler is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11308 seconds with 9 queries